All Small Six I'm Back with More Fun

[StarDiero75]

Howdy guys,

Its been awhile since my last post b/c I've been working on a lot of stuff with preping the Ranch for paint/interior and did the efi "upgrade", with 68 disks and 65 v8 steering/suspension. Anyhow, the good stuff....

So i installed the sniper 2300 and I've had nothing but issues. Ultimately I had to get a 2nd unit, 4 fuel pumps, a regulator, and a partridge in a pear tree.... It ran kinda fine with the bad regulator but it was plenty driveable and once moving, you'd almost never notice it was bad. At idle it ran rich and made the IAC and AF unhappy. So last night I replace the regulator and today I fired it up. For the first time ever, the fuel pump was almost silent. I almost couldn't tell it was on. It went from sounding like a beehive to silence. ALL WAS GREAT FOR 2 MINS. Then the fuel pump starts getting loud and making scary erratic noises. Then the idle starts getting unsteady, the AF is getting leaner. Then it sputter and dies. Restarting results in it starting just fine, then runs for 10 seconds then dies while the fuel pump screeches. I was in a hurry for my meet, so I took my motorcycle instead.

Fast forward to after the meet, its been 5 hours. The car is cold, i try to start it again. The exact same thing happens. Starts perfect, silent pump, 2 mins later the pump gets spooky, car dies. Exact order, same rough times. What's happening? Almost sounds computer related b/c the car starts fine, sounds like ass, proceeds to sound like ass until cold. Then starts fine, sounds like ass, dies. Very consistent.

What's the deal here guys? I'm real close to returning it and getting a brand new carb. Help me out here.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[frozenrabbit]

Been wondering if you were having any luck with the EFI.

I'd go with the 289 and a carb at this point. In 7 years with a 170, autolite 1100, and a Load-O-Matic dizzy, after correcting throttle linkage, carb rebuild, plugs, wires, points, I never had to tune it, always started right up, a little choke in winter. Full on daily, only ride, never broke down or stranded. Ragged out setup that would run all day, with several 1000 mile round trips, 70-80 on freeway all day. Timing and carb set up by ear, no timing light, no vac gauge, no AF gauge.

Tuning is fine, but just driving a reliable ride is way more fun.

 

[StarDiero75]

Been wondering if you were having any luck with the EFI.

I'd go with the 289 and a carb at this point. In 7 years with a 170, autolite 1100, and a Load-O-Matic dizzy, after correcting throttle linkage, carb rebuild, plugs, wires, points, I never had to tune it, always started right up, a little choke in winter. Full on daily, only ride, never broke down or stranded. Ragged out setup that would run all day, with several 1000 mile round trips, 70-80 on freeway all day. Timing and carb set up by ear, no timing light, no vac gauge, no AF gauge.

Tuning is fine, but just driving a reliable ride is way more fun.

I like how we're on a straight 6 performance site and the first thing you say is drop a 289 in it lol. I have a 289 that needs the full rebuild but I can't afford it now and thats not the direction I want with the car.

This 200 does not leave me stranded. Even with the previous carb that had shot throttle bushings, it never left me stuck anywhere. It is a good motor, it just seems I'm a very unlucky person when it comes to parts. I've always been extremely unlucky. I am thinking of going back to carb, but what I don't like about the 2100, is that it goes lean in left turns. The holley doesn't do that so I'm considering that, but holley is not leaving a good taste in my mouth. What do you think?

 

[drag-200stang]

I think that he is young and learning and will be a better person for it.
Why would a 289 be any easier especially with that vee intake manifold that has all those angles and surfaces
to seal...Boost it and they blow out.
Life gives you problems that need solving.

 

[frozenrabbit]

I'm full on for the straight sixes. I encourage the 289 because you have one. It most definitely could have had a full rebuild with everything you've thrown at your six.

I've seen you put a lot of effort in that six, but to what ends? It has seemed, as someone following your efforts, that you have been wanting more power and reliability. The 289 would get you there, with way less effort.

A 289 has a million more head, intake, exhaust, cam, options.

 

[Bronctopia]

If the fuel pump is being erratically noisy, I would suspect cavitation or air leaks. Cavitation would be from a restriction in fuel flow upstream of the pump. Assuming a rail mount pump this could be clogged tank strainer or fitting, or rusted metal fuel lines, or collapsing rubber lines. Air leak could be anywhere in suction line.

In implementing fuel injection, OEM makers all learned early on to go with pump in tank to eliminate suction side, and return fuel to tank to purge any air/vapors that did form or get into the fuel supply. Tee-ing return fuel into the supply line upstream of the pump does little to purge gasses, just makes a bubble-go-round.

 

[65coupei6]

Where is the pump mounted? Make sure it is not near the exhaust. Do you have a filter before the pump? You also want it as low as possible and as close to the tank as possible. When I had my Edlebrock electric. I made a bracket and installed it behind the tank almost level to the bottom of the tank. When you looked underneath you could see the pump was lower than the tank. It has to push the fuel not suck it.

 

[StarDiero75]

If the fuel pump is being erratically noisy, I would suspect cavitation or air leaks. Cavitation would be from a restriction in fuel flow upstream of the pump. Assuming a rail mount pump this could be clogged tank strainer or fitting, or rusted metal fuel lines, or collapsing rubber lines. Air leak could be anywhere in suction line.

In implementing fuel injection, OEM makers all learned early on to go with pump in tank to eliminate suction side, and return fuel to tank to purge any air/vapors that did form or get into the fuel supply. Tee-ing return fuel into the supply line upstream of the pump does little to purge gasses, just makes a bubble-go-round.

This is what I'll be checking first. I'll pull the sender and see what the deal is. I don't think thats the prob but we'll see. Its definitely not a loose line, everything has been very tightly secured and no leaks.

I do have a return line so all that should be fine. I'm also slightly concerned for the pump but we'll see. Kinda think somehow its sucking dry.

 

[StarDiero75]

Where is the pump mounted? Make sure it is not near the exhaust. Do you have a filter before the pump? You also want it as low as possible and as close to the tank as possible. When I had my Edlebrock electric. I made a bracket and installed it behind the tank almost level to the bottom of the tank. When you looked underneath you could see the pump was lower than the tank. It has to push the fuel not suck it.

So mine was originally mounted on the frame rail just in front of the axle on my Ranch. Now its mounted to the bottom of the gas tank. i did that to make sure its below. I mounted it to the bottom of my gas tank straps. I thought it was slick lol

 

[Invectivus]

Specifically, what pump and regulator are you working with? These EFI carb replacements appear to be temperamental with parts compatibility. I watch Nashville Early bronco YouTube videos, and he's had issues with his FiTech EFI, and Edelbrock installs. The V8 guys have a wider install base than we do.
So I'd say it sounds a bit like you're pulling air from the tank (did you buy a new pickup?) or the heat of the exhaust is boiling the gas. (sorry, see that you are running a return line). When I go EFI for my Bronco, it'll be factory Explorer intake/GT40 heads, explorer serpentine conversion on a 91 roller block.

On the mustang, I'll probably go sniper 2300, in tank pump with a return line.

Oh, and did you run power and ground from the battery/relay, or did you ground off the body?

 

[bubba22349]

I think all your describing the fuel pump noise and engine dying is the fault of the fuel pump and ts mounting location. With the pump mounted to the bottom of the fuel tank it's acting like a drum and then transmitting the noise through to the chassis. The pump may not be not low enough or if you are also still trying to use the stock falcon ranchero fuel gauge pickup point and fuel line out from the tank then the electric fuel pump is not going to be able to pull fuel out of the tank. So there's not going a sufisant amount of fuel available and it runs out / the engine to dies. I think if get a pump that can go directly inside the tank with a well around it so it's always has enough of a fuel supply or a get a new tank that's already made to mount an internal electric fuel pump. Another way is to build a big sump at the rear of the fuel tank that's the lowest point and your fuel pick up lines there this how I did nanny of my race cars and it worked great which ever way you go internal or rear sump then the problem is going to be solved. Best of luck