Is this another cheapo????

The weirdest thing is, the whole ad text is actually a screenshot. Is this an attempt to avoid potentially being accused of "uttering" because he has said nothing, merely displayed it? :?

Looks like he bought it here:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 4581747233

Dude also bought this.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 5430593204

(Did he wear it to the Melbourne Cup? :roll: )

Most of his 100% FB comes from purchases. Definitely the turbo looks a generic product. What would he say, if you asked why it's for sale?
 
OK.... I gave you a GREAT site to go to to get a GREAT turbo from. The old saying "you get what you pay for" applys heavily to turbos. I understand trying to do things on a budget, I am a college student after all, but somthing as important and "sensitive" as a turbo deserves good quality. For around $800 you can get a t3/t4 hybrid turbo that will feed the I6 and will last forever. Here is the link again Turbosunleashed

There are 2 options on that page. I recommend starting with the TO4E style turbo and putting all the option parts on it that you will need. (ford specific stuff) Doing a custom turbo setup is not something you want to cheap in. I hope this info helps you :) and good luck with the project.
 
What trim do I need, was thinkin of 54 or 57. Also the ford specific turbine ar is .82, I was thinking more like the .63. It doesnt specify the compressor ar either????

CHEERS
 
You want the .82. It is less restrictive and you will get better quality of flow out of it.
The trim will depend on how much boost you want to run. This is where a compressor map comes into play. You can find different compressor maps here.
I have a general idea on how to read these but someone a little more knowledgeble might correct me if I am wrong. First you have to find out how much air your engine eats at different rpms. Then you have to decide how much boost you want at those rpms. then use those numbers on the compressor map to make sure you are in the scope of that compressor trim. If I recall correctly the 46 trim works well on our cars. :)
 
I am running a .63 turbine right now and am happy with it.I thought it was going to be too small since it was used on the 2.3L's but th 2.3L has a higher VE than the 200 so the actual airflow is similar for both motors. I am running the stock wastegate setting at 8psi and REALLY am happy on how it all performs. the .82 housing is going to be slower to spool than the .63 but will give better power conversion.....once it gets spooled. a stage III .63 will flow better than a .82 though and spool faster.

although the .82 is about impossible to find used so maybe take that and if too big you could more easily find a .63 housing to try out.
 
this is bruzer's friend, a Turbododge freak and know a thing or two about these kinds of things (only got 10 years under my belt with these cars ;))

Anyway. The .63 would be adequate with almost any street driven engine over about 140 cubes... the airflow IS important, but so is velocity.

By putting a turbo on one of these engines, you're taking a step in the right direction :) But going to a little bit beefier cam, as well as running a bit on the rich side and playing with the ignition curves will also yeild many interesting results...

For the longest time, our little dodge 2.2L engines were supposed to stick to the .48 AR turbine housing and not go much bigger because we just couldn't flow enough air... well, after about 8 years of doing that someone finally ran a larger AR, and guess what? more power!

If you have a decent exhaust manifold, the larger AR isn't going to hurt much at all, especially if you stay with a stage 1 wheel - going beyond stage 1 (stg 2 or 3, or 4, or whatever) will increase flow through the housing but it'll take MUCH longer to spool!

Just to put it into perspective, our little 2.2's are now running turbo diesel HOLSET turbos!! they're huge turbos! and our engines have little to no problem with them on the street with even just a stock ported exhaust manifold (which is horrible btw).

By retarding the ignition a bit, you get a little less punch out of the hole, but a heck of a lot faster spool because you are effectively pushing burning gas through the turbine, forcing it to spool faster... There are many aftermarket 'piggy back' computers that do this with stock turbo'd fuel injected engines, when between shifts it retards the hell out of the ignition to keep boost until you get the next gear - sounds like hell and makes lots of fire, but works...

I'd recommend the .82 for one reason only, it gives you room to grow. A .63 would probably work REALLY well, but will limit you in the HP you can make soon after installation... and as you'll soon find out after turboing an engine, you 'get used to' the boost and always wanna push it higher... I've gone from a stock level of 7lbs to 15lbs on a street driven FWD charger... LOTS of fun.

The .63 will probaby support in the realm of about ~250 hp, which is the real story here... .82 will get you much over that, but will ALSO work well in the 200~250 range quite well, so long as its TUNED right. And if you can't tune, then a turbo isn't for you anyway...

Another note, and a major pet peeve of mine! DO NOT ASK HOW MUCH BOOST. Boost means NOTHING AT ALL. Horsepower is the name of the game - I can build two completely seperate but very similar turbo 4 cyl engines that will both make the exact same HP, but at very different boost levels. Boost means NOTHING - air flow and horsepower are what really matter here.

To figure out how much boost you want to run and what you should be looking for, first figure out how much POWER you want, then figure out the flow that is required to attain that (there are free calculators everywhere online!). THEN determine the amount of boost you're gonna need to get that HP #. From the HP figure, you can determine injectors, intake manifold design, exhaust manifold design, turbine size and trim, compressor size and trim... etc....

I'm the one that has shown bruzer Turbo's unleashed... why? sure, they cater to dodge mostly, but you know what? the guy knows his stuff! CALL HIM, not just email, and discuss what you want to do. He'll make far more recommendations and know far more than anyone else you'll be able to track down. BUT, get the figures for your engine first, know what kind of flow characteristics you're dealing with (get hard numbers!), know your displacement, compression you wanna run, and rod/stroke ratio - or call Chris at turbos unleashed and see what he'll need.

BTW, Chris has got to be one of the best guys I've met, I've actually met him in person and done business with him - very slick guy and great to deal with, he's also TOP NOTCH in the customer service business. He warantee's ALL turbos for a year (or was it two?) so long as you have new oil supply lines, which he can probably even make some for you for a custom application!

okay, enough with my ranting, I feel like I should go take a shower for being on a Ford forum for so long ;) haha, j/k *runs from the flamage!*
 
turbo_fairlane_200":8hhmdd10 said:
a stage III .63 will flow better than a .82 though and spool faster.
Click to expand...

Personally, I have NEVER Met a person happy with a staged turbine in a smaller housing... the reason is that you just DONT get the good spool characteristics of the smaller housing and you DONT get the good flow of a larger housing. You get the middle ground, lots of lag (LOTS) and still have choked flow!!

Staged wheels are for those that want somethign cheaper than a new housing, or can't find the housing just right for them (like if you were trying to find a .73, but could only choose a .68 or .79). The only other use is if your turbine is WAY too small, and you have WAY more than enough flow to get it spooled (as in, you can make 13 lbs of boost in park!).

The .82 wont spool much slower (a HONDA motor can spool a .82!! and it doesn't have to be DOHC) and will make more power. Tune properly and almost any turbo will work, so long as you dont go with a HUGE turbine that you simply cant spool...

Heck, I'd almost recommend going and getting a holset HY35 and playing with that! would make huge power/boost (35 psi is stock level! most dodge guys run 22~28 on them), they're oil cooled only (no extra lines to run, and they have increased oil capacity so its not an issue anyway! just run an oil cooler going TO the turbo!) and they're CHEAP, used they're like $250 and will probably last longer than the car (they're made to run a half million miles on a deisel!).
 
the 2.3L ford guys started running the holsets a few years back too....pretty much the same game turbowise as a mopar...

I am happy with my .63 because my car is a driver and not a drag car. I am only looking to get 200 MAYBE 250 out of it....any more and I will make the switch to a better rotating assembly and EFI and a T4 turbo (or maybe a HY) But I woudl agree that going with a .82 would be a good start. you could always find a used .63 ford housing to toss on it if not happy for fairly cheap. Bruzer and his bud are right....figure out what your REALISTIC goal is (we would all like a 1200hp pump gas turbo car) and work back from there. Like I said I am very happy with the .63 BUT I am running lower boost levels than I would like right now and who knows I might hit that wall as soon as I start turning up the boost.
 
couple things... the GN's are usually running .63 some came with .83. but alot with .63. These motors are 6 cylinders and good for comparison. a t3 is good to about 300 hp as these came from the early turbo coupes. This turbo is an upgrade for the 87/88 turbo coupes. I think a important thought is the fact that you guys are running motors in excess of 300,000 miles. where they burn oil have terriable compression, but still run. a t3 is good to about 22 psi before it come inefficiant. the problem with turning up boost is air and fuel and timing. turbo cars love timing and boost. with a water injection system that thought comes alive. the stratagy is boost referencing a stock fuel pump. and if you dont IC keep the boost down. a descent IC will help alot. and wil make or could break a motor. detonation is your enemy the air can become super heated and then you burn a piston. the IC cools air, as does the water injection. water injection cools the incoming air/fuel charge and is cheap but an option to look at. just a couple things to improve installation of a turbo kit.
 
trashline":10gsjzwf said:
couple things... the GN's are usually running .63 some came with .83. but alot with .63. These motors are 6 cylinders and good for comparison. a t3 is good to about 300 hp as these came from the early turbo coupes. This turbo is an upgrade for the 87/88 turbo coupes. I think a important thought is the fact that you guys are running motors in excess of 300,000 miles. where they burn oil have terriable compression, but still run. a t3 is good to about 22 psi before it come inefficiant. the problem with turning up boost is air and fuel and timing. turbo cars love timing and boost. with a water injection system that thought comes alive. the stratagy is boost referencing a stock fuel pump. and if you dont IC keep the boost down. a descent IC will help alot. and wil make or could break a motor. detonation is your enemy the air can become super heated and then you burn a piston. the IC cools air, as does the water injection. water injection cools the incoming air/fuel charge and is cheap but an option to look at. just a couple things to improve installation of a turbo kit.
Click to expand...

there IS NO BOOST LEVEL WHERE A TURBO BECOMES INEFFICIENT. The ONLY Problem becomes when your motor is eating more air than the turbo can flow at a certain shaft speed... boost is ONLY a measure of the resistance of the flow to ENTER the motor. THATS IT. boost means NOTHING, its just a good way to say 'mine is bettter' without actually unzipping and whipping out a ruler...

I run 15lbs of boost on an 8.5:1 motor with NO intercooler... 185 degree thermostat helps that. Oh, that 15psi means nothing, did I mention that? Why do I need 15 psi? because my head/manifolds are unported. IF they were ported (and flowed decent) I could make THE SAME POWER with 6 psi, or I could up my compression to 11:1, but 150 octane is hard to find ;) haha.

I make ~200hp with a 2.2l four banger and run mid 14's FWD in a 2300lb car.

The reason cars like GN's came with only .63's is that STOCK cars from the FACTORY were made to outlast their warantee, and be drivable by grandma without having her bring it in because 'it drives like a slug then plants me in the trunk'. Thats the SAME EXACT reason dodge went to the tiny mitsu turbo in 1989 instead of just staying with the garrett - faster spool and grandma didn't complain as much (remember, dodge put the Turbo motors in anything from a hotrod 2 door coupe to grandmas little acclaim, even MINIVANS!!, lmao).

The .63 will drive great, boost great, but it'll limit rpm above a certain limit - whats the limit? dunno, havn't built a turbo 200 yet (YET)... How can you TELL what the rpm limit is? Not unless you've felt the SAME motor with better flowing exhaust ;)

I'd start with a .82 stage 1 turbine in a t3/t4 hybrid, go with a larger impellor and go from there. I'd bet with proper tuning that it'd still launch and pull hard with full spool at a decent RPM (below 3750) and go like MAD (remember the Shelby GLH in 1985? stood for: goes like HELL, the GLH-S? oh yeah, it goes like hell some MORE). Anyway, I'll try not to spill too much mopar over here ;)

Remember, AIRFLOW is what matters, boost is a RELATIVE measure of airflow, it ONLY works when comparing the SAME head, SAME exhaust manifold, SAME turbine housing, and SAME exhaust after the turbo... Otherwise, its just apples and oranges... You could build 30 psi of boost but if the max airflow is limited, so will your HP. If you open up the head, especially the exhaust side (not a larger valve, unshrouded valves and larger ports will help more!), and run a decent flowing exhaust header ('equal length' is best, build a collector just before the turbo) and I bet these motors would flow just about anything.

Also remember, that building boost helps build boost - as soon as the boost starts to come on its building more flow out of the exhaust which is going to spool it harder.

If you feel you can't get enough of the turbo dodge wisdom I spew, you can find me as Phreakish on turbododge.com ;) We got a lot of guys who do these kinds of things for a living, including several that run sub 9 seconds in FWD cars with STOCK bottom ends.
 
Goals, Well this is a circuit track/street car and I am looking for around 500hp at the crank. 5500-6000RPM. Remember also this a 250 crossflow alloyhead aussie engine, not a 200. Is this turbo's unleashed in aus???? Turbo's do become ineficient when they are too small so they super heat the air trying to reach the boost because of shaft speed. I know a guy who had a AHEM....AHEM..WRX...AHEM running something like 20psi and then took it to a tune shop, they got better power out of it with 15psi and better running because the intake charge dropped something like 20 degrees! Definately need a T4 not a hybrid, yer the .82 sounds about good and a reasonably large trim. Also already started building intake and exhaust manifolds, equal length, the exhaust runners are about 24 inches in length with a good collector design, the intake is about 8 inches. EFI is the only way to go for turbo if you ask me
 
Linc is doing fine with his Garrett TO4B with S-3 Trim compressor, "O" trim turbine, .68 A/R housing blowing through the stock 1-barrel. He's only running 13.50's in the 1/4 but is severely limited by the 1-bbl carb. EFI? If you want to go for it, please do, and document what you do. For the money you can't beat a carb but if you have the cash, roll with it. I don't have it myself, that's why I would go with a carb. For full-throttle operation they can't be beat. EFI is better for part-throttle fuel economy (in theory) and that's all I can see it's good for.

I'd say equal length headers aren't a huge deal with a turbo considering the short length of the header anyway. The main thing is to keep the heat in the manifold and keep the velocity up. Intercooler, definitely. These are more than worth their weight in horsepower.

The .63 will drive great, boost great, but it'll limit rpm above a certain limit - whats the limit? dunno, havn't built a turbo 200 yet (YET)... How can you TELL what the rpm limit is? Not unless you've felt the SAME motor with better flowing exhaust
Click to expand...

From reading the posts on this forum the 200 runs out of headroom at 5000 rpm, boosted or not. It'll rev higher but won't make power. It just falls on its face. The 250 x-flow will be better at higher rpm's but how much? Maybe up to 6200 or so? I have never even seen one of these engines so I couldn't say.

A turbo DOES have a flow range where it becomes inefficient. That's why there are bigger turbos out there...a T80 will be inefficient below 4000 rpm even on a 4-5-4 but a T25 (or whatever Mitsu equivalent) will be overspeeded even on a 2.5L at higher boost...that's why all those DSM guys change them out... you just have to choose the right one for your application.
 
wallaka":xb8196g8 said:
Linc is doing fine with his Garrett TO4B with S-3 Trim compressor, "O" trim turbine, .68 A/R housing blowing through the stock 1-barrel. He's only running 13.50's in the 1/4 but is severely limited by the 1-bbl carb. EFI? If you want to go for it, please do, and document what you do. For the money you can't beat a carb but if you have the cash, roll with it. I don't have it myself, that's why I would go with a carb. For full-throttle operation they can't be beat. EFI is better for part-throttle fuel economy (in theory) and that's all I can see it's good for.

I'd say equal length headers aren't a huge deal with a turbo considering the short length of the header anyway. The main thing is to keep the heat in the manifold and keep the velocity up. Intercooler, definitely. These are more than worth their weight in horsepower.

The .63 will drive great, boost great, but it'll limit rpm above a certain limit - whats the limit? dunno, havn't built a turbo 200 yet (YET)... How can you TELL what the rpm limit is? Not unless you've felt the SAME motor with better flowing exhaust
Click to expand...

From reading the posts on this forum the 200 runs out of headroom at 5000 rpm, boosted or not. It'll rev higher but won't make power. It just falls on its face. The 250 x-flow will be better at higher rpm's but how much? Maybe up to 6200 or so? I have never even seen one of these engines so I couldn't say.

A turbo DOES have a flow range where it becomes inefficient. That's why there are bigger turbos out there...a T80 will be inefficient below 4000 rpm even on a 4-5-4 but a T25 (or whatever Mitsu equivalent) will be overspeeded even on a 2.5L at higher boost...that's why all those DSM guys change them out... you just have to choose the right one for your application.
Click to expand...

Lincs is doing great I'd say, but the reason hes pushing over 20 lbs of boost is BECAUSE of that darn carb and bad top end (my engine suffers from it too, so I sympathize).

Can't beat a carb for the money? Okay... well, I'm not gonna start a war, but thats just wrong. Show me a carb that can be driven anywhere and make constant adjustment based on local atmospheric pressure, intake air temperature (charge air temp), exhaust gas temp, and dont forget things like ACTIVE oxygen sensor feedback when in closed loop (anything but WOT). The nice thing about EFI with a turbo is that you can also (with most systems) run an electronic igntion with boost retard... That is customizable on MAP, RPM, car speed (YES, even the speed the car is rolling!) AND if programmed right you can even 'stage' your boost levels in different gears AND control alcohol injection points and amounts...

And for $250-300 you can have that with megasquirt ;) Show me a carb/electronic ignition setup that'll do all that for the same price :) Just an observation tho, not raking anyone over the coals.

If a turbo motor is done PROPER, then YES an equal length header IS almost NECESSARY. If you look at even the holsets (HY35 IRRC) they have a 'split flange' where there are TWO inlets into the turbo scroll - MANY MANY MANY MANY people have logged the FACT that building an equal length with 1&4 and 2&3 coupled into the seperate flanges (on a 4 cyl) makes a HUGE difference (over 1000 rpm) in time it takes the turbo to spool. This is for a number of reasons but flow reversion is one of the big reasons... You want a header that takes the exhaust smoothly and doesn't try to shove exhaust from one cylinder, into another port that aint open just then.

This is known truths, and I know it. Choosing the proper sized turbo is a huge deal - but assuming a PROPER build with a CUSTOM exhaust (not just a t3 flange welded to the stocker) and a FRESH engine would do wonderfully with a largish carb (or going EFI) with a .82 exhaust t3/t4 hybrid with a stage 1 exhaust turbine and I'd CALL and talk with Chris about compressor choices...

Learning to read a compressor map is the ONLY way to have an IDEA of what efficiency would be... being able to spool the same turbo is a whole nother issue - which is why a t3/t4 works so well for engines with insufficient flow capabilities, which is also why a larger a/r turbine housing is a good idea, gets some of that flow back from the tiny t3 turbine.
 
wallaka":gwyjuzeo said:
The 250 x-flow will be better at higher rpm's but how much? Maybe up to 6200 or so? I have never even seen one of these engines so I couldn't say.
Click to expand...

Any one have some port flow numbers for that head?

I know of several Aussies in the high 11's with a cross flow 250. That's a far stroke away from 600 HP, though. I can't imagine all the necessary $$$$ spent on custom parts to handle that kind of HP. You have your work cut out for you.
 
addo":3daskkxt said:
Seen this page, Linc? They're quarter miles, not eighths.
Click to expand...

I see that by the MPH times.

Wow, Joe Gauci is running a 200?? That's ungodly. I'm not worthy! :wink:

I would REALLY like to see some pictures of the engines these guys are running.
 
I think they'd be impressed with your setup. That Cortina is impressive, though - look at the launch picture; so little wasted energy.
 
I'm willing to try for 500hp. I wont be dissapointed if I fall a bit short but the 500 would be great. Yeah theres people doing it in Aussie but I want it slightly sreetable, it'll be a dog I know but you cant have everything.
With the right turbo, about 20psi, the chev rods and pistons, a good ECM and heaps of head and exhaust prep, I know I can do it
 
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