knockknockknock--update

[wallaka]

Well, that's what the car is doing... I drove on the Interstate the other day and it starting acting funny...skipping and such so I slowed down and noticed a clattering like the valves weren't adjusted correctly. I looked down and the oil pressure was on zero and there was white smoke from the tailpipe. Pulled over, opened the hood and looked at it.

There was a good bit of smoke or fumes coming from the draft tube and the exhaust was glowing a dull red. Waited a while, then started it back up. It clattered and smoked for a second then the oil pressure came up and it smoothed out. No smoke, but a muffled, slow knock was there.

It sounds like it's on the left middle of the engine. What could this be?

Hopefully it's the oil pump, I gotta pull the oilpan an look for metal shavings or pieces.

It runs fine, no skipping or anything. It didn't overheat, the guage stayed under ½ the whole time. Plus I have a new water pump, radiator, thermostat and hoses with a new headgasket.

 

[Mercury Mike]

Balancer or distributor about to go, and messing with your timing?

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

when your oil pressure drops in a hyd lifter motor you will loose your valve lift/lash and get a weak motor that clatters. I would start with checking the oil level and condition. might be wise to pop a new filter on and cut open the old one to check for major shavings.

 

[wallaka]

Balancer or distributor about to go, and messing with your timing?

Dunno, put new distributor guts in it a month or so ago, so that should be fine. It only has 40k miles on it anyhow.

 

[wallaka]

when your oil pressure drops in a hyd lifter motor you will loose your valve lift/lash and get a weak motor that clatters. I would start with checking the oil level and condition. might be wise to pop a new filter on and cut open the old one to check for major shavings.

I figured that's why it was making noise. The oil is still full, and I'm about to take the filter and pan off.

At least I don't have a crossmember in the way to block oilpan removal.

 

[ludwig]

I got a bad knock on the original motor from the Stang. The pump shaft was rounded and would drop down, out of the dizzy shaft. No oil pressure and no oil. I replaced the pump, but much more of the motor was shot so I replaced the motor.

But the no-oil hammer was down low on the left side about the middle of the block -- it seems. I didn't leave it running very long.

 

[wallaka]

I had to get home--so I ran it about 30 miles at 40 mph or so.

Anyhow, I cut the filter open, and no big shavings. There are some very very fine particles copper or bronze colored in the filter. They're so small that I just see the shimmer of them against the filter material.

I found about a 5mm piece of black rusty debris in the oil catch bucket, but will wait until tomorrow to drop the pan because it is very windy right now.

Still hoping it's part of the oil pump.

 

[66 Fastback]

I'm not sure I can come up with a single cause that would cause the low oil pressure, clattering and red exhaust.
Definately sounds like you had a pump problem that caused a low oil pressure and a lifter/valve clattering noise.

The red exhaust would be a lean condition or an ignition timing problem.
I am wondering if the collapsed lifters would create a lean condition. The valves would be openning later and lift less than normal. So it seems to me that it could also be getting less fuel pulled in due to the lower valve lift. Maybe the collapsed lifters would lead to the high exhaust temps. Couple that with the fact that the oil may not have been circulating and helping cool as much as it normally does.
Doug

 

[73GreenMachine]

Couldn't low oil pressure and knocking be related to a bearing failure? On one of my earlier motors, it was a number of big end bearings that were the cause of this problem. If this is the case, you will find splattered lines of white metal debris in the bottom of the sump. Their position is usually an indicator of which bearing has failed. As for the dull red exhaust, isn't that normal if you have been cruising on a highway for a long period of time? If not as others have said, it would relate to a high combustion chamber temperature, which could be due to a lean mixture or incorrect ignition timing. If the timing was too far advanced, wouldn't that cause higher combustion temperatures?

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

FYI the centers of the bearing inserts are copper....the motor I am putting together right now had copper and all the bearings showing for most of the insert. the lowers will wear more on the mains then the tops will. drop the pan and pop off a cap adn see what the insert in that half of the main looks like. I hope you didn't cook it too bad!!

bores were clean on my motor and the crank looked pretty good. had it turned to true it up and gave it a quick hone for some fresh rings and bearings to be dropped in it.

 

[wallaka]

Found it! Pulled the pan, (only breaking one oilpan bolt and the swaybar end bolt whilst doing so) and saw the telltale copper flakes in the rear of the sump. Looked up and wiggled the #3 rod, and it moved. Took it off and the bearing is trashed. The cap and crank don't look bad so I'm just gonna shine the journals up and replace the bearing.

And the oil pump just to make sure. The bearing failing might have made the oil pump miss, but not likely.

 

[64.5 TX Stang]

How does one shine up the journals? I am considering freshening the bottom end on my car, but my toy funds are limited.

 

[mustang6]

It's hard to tell from the picture- is the bearing spun? If it is you have some work to do on that rod.

Also, if one rod bearing looks like this the others aren't far behind. I'd replace them all while you have it apart. You will buy them in a set anyway so it's just taking the extra time.

 

[wallaka]

It's hard to tell from the picture- is the bearing spun? If it is you have some work to do on that rod.

Also, if one rod bearing looks like this the others aren't far behind. I'd replace them all while you have it apart. You will buy them in a set anyway so it's just taking the extra time.

I figured that. Might as well replace the mains too while I have the bottom end unbuttoned, don't have much else to do whilst job-hunting. My dad is coming over and we'll see if I need to have the surfaces trued.

I might get a cam while I'm at it, depends on how much the wife'll let me have to play.

See what happens when a car sits for 20+ years and then gets ran suddenly?

The bearing wasn't spun. At least if it did, it spun an exact 360* because it was lined up with the rod and cap. It looks like it in the picture but it's not galled or ridged. It's smooth to the touch.

 

[66 Fastback]

Bummer. I was hoping it would not be that bad and was trying to come up with a more positive spin rather than a catastophic failure.
But knock knock knock, no oil pressure and high temps must add up to only one bad thing.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

you might as well pull the motor out then. with a tranny bolted up you can't get the crank out to do the mains. and if you are pulling the trans might as well yank the motor to save the trouble of doing it in teh car (plus you can run a brush through the galleys and get them cleaned out)

 

[wallaka]

That's what we decided to do. I have a friend with a shop so I'm gonna load it up on the trailer and take it there. Much easier pulling the engine with cement floors and a lift to get underneath. He has an engine table so I won't even need a cherry picker, just rest the engine on the table and disconnect everything, then lift the car up. Much quicker and easier than a cherry picker. I might just find another motor and build this one up...not much liquidity right now. If I can find a good used motor for a couple hundred bucks I'll be in business.

 

[Anonymous]

How does one shine up the journals? I am considering freshening the bottom end on my car, but my toy funds are limited.

Get some 600 grit crocus cloth and cut a piece the width of the rod journal, ~almost~ long enough to wrap around. (no overlap)
Then lubricate well with solvent or diesel and wrap a few turn of long leather boot lacing around it. Gently pull each end of boot lace up and down. Clean the cloth with diesel frequently.
Don't over do it - - you just want them to look nice, you aren't trying to turn it to the next undersize!

If I can find a good used motor for a couple hundred bucks I'll be in business.

I have all kinds of good used stock parts if you just want to keep it stock for now, but if you need a few rods/pistons and such.

If the mains are fine, re-use them. Rods bearings are cheap so I would replace all. If you can get a set of rings for $30 or so, hone the cyls and add new rings.

 

[73GreenMachine]

saw the telltale copper flakes in the rear of the sump. Looked up and wiggled the #3 rod, and it moved. Took it off and the bearing is trashed.

Yep, a painful sight isnt it? You are lucky though, at least you got to drive it home(I got towed a good 50km by my dad at 10pm at night). As others have said, it isn't really a bad problem to fix as long as the rod journals are fine, which in most cases they seem to be.

 

[lyonsy]

a shine up is a linsh just a bit of 1200 cut in strips coated in crc wrap around teh crank twice pull a set amount of times for example 10 then wrap the oposite way same amount again install new bearing.
linc what ya use the 600 be a bit harsh or do you use old 600?
as for mains not hard to roll them in when pushing on them what ever you do dont push on the bearing surface push on the tap if it gets a little bent it dont matter.
failing that get a bolt that fits in the oil gallary file sharp edges off and slowly turn engine over to roll it in.
when inspecting the top sheel in bigend wear the most while the bottom sheel will for mains.
has it started to grab a pistons?
drift