More turbo discussions for 200ci

[66Sprint6]

Ok,
Ive seen alot about water cooling in two different areas.

1. Water injection into the aircleaner
2. Spraying the intercooler

Most of the time Ive seen NOS sprayed on intercoolers to cool them, but will water do? Its to cool the charge even more. Also, will water injection into the aircleaner help me run a little more boost safely, or boost in general, no matter what level.

Also, I am still lookin for a fuel sending unit, somethin to get more fuel to the carb under boost.

Last question, how much boost should I run with the below mention mods? I have nothin done to the block, but it is a fairly low mile original block that didnt seem tired in the least. I am thinkin bout doin ARP ROd bolts and eventually dished pistons to lower my C/R but that will have to wait till I get money.

Any help or just any discussions about those questions would be appreciated
Matt

 

[Anonymous]

with water injection..

spraying water before the turbo cooles the inlet down and also cools the compressor housing as well, this has the benefit that the housing runs cooler there fore the boosted air is cooler and thus more dense and so on providing more power. and another good point is that cos the area the water is entering is so hot it atomises the water into steam which then evaporates. one problem with it all is that if you inject the water too close to the compressor wheel you will have water droplets hitting the compressor wheel, some thing turbo dont like as they are far more fragile then their supercharger counterparts. i have seen nice little slots machined into the compressor wheel from water injection- a way to get around this is to inject the water just after the filter in the inlet tract that leads to the turbo. (do not inject it b4 the filter as the water will sit in the pores of the filter and preventing good breathing)

running water injection into the cooler will mean you get a cooler intake charge but you have to watch how much water is put into the system as if you put too much in you will not completly atomise the water in the inlet charge and so you will have water taking up all impotant space in the chambers. also if some of the water ends up in the chambers the flame in the bores will be of less rate then with out the water injection.

both wok well enuf to use just weigh up the pro's and cons of each and see what you'd prefer.

personly i prefer the first option (w/i into compressor). as the turbo compressor runs cooler thus giving better inlet charges for x amount of boost compared to the 2nd option. but the first option wrong (ie. to much water or too close to compressor) and you'll be forking out money for a new compressor wheel. with option 2 there isnt any major issues in terms of reliablity with it at all.

cheers.joe.

 

[Anonymous]

now with the question of how much boost to run.

basicly book ur car in for a dyno session for thw whole afternoon.

then start boost of at like 5psi... then just keep feeding it more boost and adjusting fueling and timing (tuning it) till your package has reached its limits (ie .. ur fuel system cant supply anymore fuel.) then turn it back 3 notches (keep track of each boost increase= so start at 5 then record settings.. then go up to 7 record settings) so you may end up with 15 psi on board at the limit but go back 3 notches and you may end up with 11psi.

work for me and the cars i have set up like this have never blown or had reliability issuses.

cheers.joe.

 

[66Sprint6]

Awesome,
So your saying to inject water, if at all, right before the intake to the turbo after the filter. Wont it hit the compressor if I do that?? I didnt know it would heat that quick. Are there any other "tricks" to not only get more boost but to make it more reliable and run better. I am still workin on a front mount intercooler, still looking for a good one that is, lol. I cantfind any rx7 ones, there are plenty of volvo turbo ones. Im still not sure tho, I want a good onethat will not cause too much lag but will last and cool the best I can get. I need itto fit in the grill I believe.
Matt

 

[Anonymous]

the volvo coolers cores are also good but they have very nasty end tanks on some of them,

cobrasix- can you mesure ur volvo one up?? (witdth,height,depth)

with the water injection. inject the water imediatly after the filter (at least 6-8 inches away from the compressor) the further away from the compressor you make it the better it will be.

also use either carby jets as the injector or some irrigation nozzels (garden shops have them). the irragation nozzles can be bought in many different spray patterns. get one that gives of a fine mist, as this will prevent any big droplets of water hitting the turbo

grab a windscreen washer bottle togeather with the bottles pump as ur water resiviour and have the pump activated by a temp sensor that is fited close to the throttle body/carburetor. have it come in say round 40 degree's celecius.


that way its not constantly pumping water

cheers.joe.

 

[66Sprint6]

thats sounds awesome, I will have to get on that when it comes time. I also want to know about a good way to spray the intercooler too, or is it even worth it, lol. LOTS of people like to spray it but I dont know if it would bethat big of a deal on my Daily driver, anyone?
Destroyer,
what gains am I looking towards running this spray deal?

 

[Anonymous]

when ever i spray water to the cooler its always from the outside if the cooler so the cooler then has a layer of water over it to transfer heat away better.

my budget set ups usually use a t04 with a rx7 series 4 intercooler and a delco efi system.

if air temps are too high i 9 times outa 10 will go for the w/i before the turbo. if more cooling is required i spray a mist over the cooler core.

usually i set up the w/i and spray mist when high boost is running or when inlet temps are hot. other then that i run just teh w/i.

qutoing power figures is something i dont believe in doing. i prefer to just apply what i know (ok sometimes i'll push the envelope a little each time) and just see what happens. wat i will say is i will be surprised if you do not get at least 30 percent more power

and that 30%wont come at the cost of drivabilty/reliablity/fuel consumption.

cheers.joe.

ps. have fun and always be prepared to get in and get dirty and have a go its the only way to be!!

 

[Anonymous]

also in reguards to the post i put up b4 about throwing the car on the dyno....
remember this short saying..

BOOST DOSENT KILL MOTORS.... DETONATION WILL!!!!!


cheers.joe.

 

[Anonymous]

http://slantsix.org/articles/turbo-arti ... rticle.htm

have alook at that link.. it may u a few clues as what to do in reguards to a blow thru carby (nasty.. nasty way to boost.. GO EFI!!!!!)

CHEERS.JOE.

 

[CobraSix]

Joe, I'll get those measurements tonight or tomorrow. Mine is from a late model S70. The intercooler is pretty large. Some of the earlier 740s may be a better candidate as the car is a little narrower and so was the intercooler on some of the turbo equiped ones.

All good advise on the water spray.

Do a search here for more general tips on turbos: www.volvospeed.com

Lots of good information there because the site is all about turbo volvos.

Slade

 

[MustangSix]

More intercooler info at http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_coolers.html

 

[66Sprint6]

Delco Fuel Injection, how much would that cost to do?!?!? I have never fiddled with that stuff so where would I get ahold of everything I needed to do it. I have always seen kits for efi runnin in the $1000+ range. Thanx for the site, that is helpful, and besides, I prolly wont run it through the carb that long, just long enough to get it runnin then Ill make it a new project to try out fuel injection, I just gottaknow how and how much.
Matt

 

[Asa]

sorry to hi-jack the thread, but hopefully it'll be worth it

a few questions
approx how much water is consumed by water injection? i know that it depends all upon the setup, but is it normally a huge amount, or what?

any provisions for winter conditions? what happens if the water freezes? will the cooler air outside take over to help cool it enough, or........

noticed gm dstroya talkin 'bout hooking it up to a temp sensor to help save water, and i just wondered how hard it would be to add in a kill switch, something that wouldn't let the car start if the water level was too low, or whatever (something easily disabled if you had to go somewhere and could get enough water, etc.)

 

[CobraSix]

A lot of volvo owners use the windshield washing resevior and use alcohol for injection. It cleans the windshields very well also. YOu'd definitely want some sort of pressure or temperature operated set up, it won't last all day.

Slade

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

I not some people runnign injection ona 2.3L ford...they use washer fluid in the winter (water/alky mix)

my setup I am collecting and making parts for right now is as follows..

free 78 200 block that is .040 over with a 65 head...has .050" deck height and the large dished pisons...so lower than 8:1 compression...

1100 carb on factory spacer. boost is fede froma length of j-bend attached with a silicon connector to the carb (might need a fitting on the carb to clamp to not sure yet..)

enrichment will be from a nos sprayer and solenoid.

pressure will be regulated off a modded mallory reg I have (need to port it for boost)

to up the line pressure I am going to install a cheapy unieral electric pump after the factory one

the exhaust manifold is being weled up out fo plate steel .100" thick. just a log style setup. with a bracket to support it all

the oil will come from teh stock sender location that is going to be tee'd into and the return into the pan through a welded bung.

I think this covers eerything in it.

nick

 

[66Sprint6]

Hey Fairlane,
what and where did you get the pistons. That sounds like what I want. Are you doin a blow through. Also, are the pistons forged? Thanxalot
Matt

 

[sefus]

the thing to remember about turbo systems and engines in general is that its all about efficiency. its all about the flow!

with that having been said, what are you guys doing for exhaust manifolds? is anyone using a headder and croping it or what?

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

The pistons were int eh motor when I got it...just plain old .040 over rebuilder pistons. the key thing getting me the low compression is the .050" deck from the 78 block. I was going to build a tripower camed motor but I needed to raise the compression and since I have the turbo already.....cost me $120 for the turbo (.63/.60)..$30 for the nice billet mallory regulator (factory rebuilt)..need to get the rest still...the manifold shouldn't run more than $30 to make..$50 if I buy a fancy hole saw or something. if it fits well I might make a few for people IF they are serious about getting one.

a converted tube header has two problems to be met on a turbo car..

1. you need shorter runners to keep the energy going
2. you need support since the thin 18 gauge mild steel will get real hot and the weight of the turbo will cause it to bend/sag

my design is simple....make a head flange and basicly extend the ports out about 2". then feed a log with the turbo hung off that. there will be a support brace off the motor mount or other boss on teh side of the motor.

rememebr the turbo gets its energy from pressure. so keeping the log small will help it spool up better. also you need a thick wall on teh tubing you use. most people that build good turbo headers use steam pipe (thick cast steel) a fabbed from flat stock header is about as simple as you can make it and cheap as you can make it (couple lengths of steel strap)

 

[Anonymous]

sorry to hi-jack the thread, but hopefully it'll be worth it

a few questions
approx how much water is consumed by water injection? i know that it depends all upon the setup, but is it normally a huge amount, or what?

any provisions for winter conditions? what happens if the water freezes? will the cooler air outside take over to help cool it enough, or........

noticed gm dstroya talkin 'bout hooking it up to a temp sensor to help save water, and i just wondered how hard it would be to add in a kill switch, something that wouldn't let the car start if the water level was too low, or whatever (something easily disabled if you had to go somewhere and could get enough water, etc.)

if you hook the water injection up in a way so that it switches on when inlet temps hits a certain temp range (ie. 43 degrees) the system will kick in and inject water. if inlet temps dont get to that level the injection will stay off, thus not using any water.

i hook my set ups with a low water level warning light .(as some washer bottle tanks that have the pumps with them will have awarning sender included (usually in later model cars)). once the light comes on and you have no spare water (i always carry 3 lt in the boot just incase). just make sure you only drive the car below its boost threshold.... this means no heavy acceleration, and no revving it past the point at which boost occurs. follow this and you wont have problems. and i generally find that you have to fill a 1 lt (1/4 galon) every 2 weeks...(though this figure is very dependant on application and mine are always pushing the limits)

as for water freezing in winter/icey conditions....

dont run water in them conditions, the cooler air being drwn thru the turbo (usually around 0 deg when freezing occurs) will cool the air enuf. but if you really must run a injection set up... then just use straight methonal.

i recall using just straight methonal injection (2 yrs ago) on a 250 alloy head cross flow engine, the engine was a completely stock had 270 thousand k's on the clock.. but the engine was well maintained (changed oil every 5000 k's and watnot) we ran a t04 e trim turbo with a 1.00 ar exhaust and a .61 intake. 15 psi to the old girl with a 750 holley running in a blow thru configuration.. both inlet and exhaust manifolds were custom made by me.

on the dyno we saw 240rwhp with 16 psi outa the beast. but inlet temps were soaring up to 78 degrees, so we ended up running straight methonal injection, inlets droped to 39 degrees, we advanced the timing and re-jetted the carb, and to my surprise the car kicked out 320rwhp.

but the owner of the car couldnt afford to run methonal (being 10 bux a galon) constantly. so we reverted back to water only injection power droped back down to 280rwhp, but inlet temps sat round the 46 degree mark.

the car is still going today.... running a mid to high 13 second quater mile passes.

cheers.joe.

 

[66Sprint6]

Destroyer,
When I really get on this project (actually putting it on the car) Im gonna get your help on the set up as far as basically everything goes, injection, intercooler etc. You have been very good. Oh, what do you think, out of your experience and with what all Im gonna be running, should I be able to make in HP and what boost would I be best to stay around for daily driving. Ballpark estimates are fine. Thanx man
Matt