My 1964 Australian Falcon

[Anonymous]

hey guys. Im Barry from South Australia and I am doing up a 1964 falcon.

as you can see the paint is still a work in progress!

anyway I joined up on this forum to see if i can learn a bit more about early for 6s. The current engine in mine is a 170, but I have come across a mustang 200ci motor for sale cheap. its casting number is C8DE. it has a single barrel Holley carburettor on it. Is this standard? are they any good? Its mated to a C4 automatic transmission. I was really after a manual though, will a toploader bolt up to this engine? I dont think my 170's 3 speed manual will.

Would welding on a flange and installing 2bbl holley be worthwhile on a 200? how high lift can i go with the stock springs before they will need to be replaced?

are there any simple modifications that can be done to the 200 to make it perform better?

thanks fellas.

 

[addo]

Nice chrome. Can I borrow it - mine's a bit ratty?

If you're certain it's a US motor then you'd need to import a Toploader-compatible bellhousing (cheapest method) but they are cast alloy and therefore not too dear for posting. You would also need an aftermarket rear mount for the tranny. A dearer option would be a cast-to-order Dellow bellhousing ($350 plus) but at that point you may as well order a T-5 one and get the extra slot in your box.

A mild Crow cam, electronic ignition and a carby with adaptor will see quite a bit more grunt out either motor. Crow make a single valve spring that can hack fairly steep cams.

Much of what you can do, will depend on where budget, time and facilities intersect.

 

[Anonymous]

I believe that everything from the tail end of your crank shaft on back will bolt right up to the 200--provided they were both US engines. I just put a 78 200 in my 62 (came as a 170 but had 144 in it when i got it) and used old flywheel, bell houseing etc. This is a way to get her going quick and not spend a lot of money--although the Tree speed is on my next to be replaced list -but i am still driving while i source $$ and parts.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks fellas.

I am picking up a 1965 XP falcon for a parts vehicle on saturday. it is fitted with a 250 xflow motor. I would like to use this but the authorities have said that that a 250 requires brake upgrades and inspection, something im not overly keen on. So I intend to use the holley 2bbl carburettor from it on the mustang 200ci motor.

are there any differences in the heads from 200 to 170? are the chamber sizes the same? If there is a compression rise from putting the 170 head on the 200 I will modify that head for the 2bbl.

by the way, I have some late model windsor valve gear lying around. will valves/valvesprings/retainers fit onto the 200?

I also picked up some 14x5.5" mustang rims to replace the stock 13" rims. what width tyres can i use on these without fouling suspension on the front?

PS
heres a photo of the current 170.

 

[addo]

Note the 4-stud Mustang rims aren't like Oz XP Fairmont rims. They won't clear the Fairmont front discs if that was on your list of planned swaps. A 215 tyre is about the widest you can slot on safely but you may find 195 is adequate. If you ever land some XP 4-stud 14s, they can be re-rimmed as slightly wider 15s. Food for thought!

Your 170 will have head chamber volumes between 48 and 50cc depending on the skim cuts it may have experienced. I think a '68 US head is about 50cc but someone else may know better. Have a good look at the motor to see if the head's ever been off.

Replace the white paint with "Turquoise Mist" (pale blue) and you have my equally spotty engine bay.

Cheers, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks addo. I wasnt planning on upgrading the brakes, thats why the 200 is going in and not the 250 xflow!

so the heads are pretty much the same? are there any flow/ valve size differences? i may install the 200 then play around with the spare 170 head.

 

[addo]

I suppose the later head may have larger valves, but can't be 100%. It would possibly feature bigger ports and the potential for greater upsizing of valves anyway.

A 170-200 swap should be pretty straightforward, barring carby pull issues from a LHD motor. Maybe get that ironed out, and run it until a tranny swap is possible. Then you can plot any other working over, while it's still a driver.

 

[Vaughano]

Looks like a nice XM from the photo, Barry. I'm hoping to find myself something similar. (Don't tell anyone, but I'm getting a bit sick of driving a commodore! )

Interesting about the rego for the Xflow conversion, I wasn't aware of that. You're from Adelaide, I'm guessing?

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah Im in adelaide.

its not that its crossflow, its that its a 250. thats a increase in displacement of 25%! regency park advised that it would need to have brakes upgraded and inspected to get it registered.

I picked up the 200 today. can anyone tell me anything about it? i noticed the fuel pump is different to the 170.

 

[addo]

40 over in 1976? I hope the pots are nice and serviceable. That's the first thing I'd check.

 

[Anonymous]

got my parts car home today too

however I've just discovered the carb is actually a Holley 2300 500CFM carb! is this going to be waaaaay too big? will it actually cause problems being on a 200?

 

[addo]

Pretty straight for a parts car! Going to scrap the shell? Is that a Redline manifold?

Honestly, the 500CFM will need some rejetting and tweaking and even then, may be too big for a near-stock engine.

BTW, nice Fairlane.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks. its a 1970 ZC Fairlane 500 351w. thats the pride and joy sunday drives car.

yeah its a redline manifold. the parts XP is pretty straight, but the chassis is a bit rusty behind the kick panels. its shown with no doors or guards but i have all the panels.

I know the 500 wont give me optimum preformance, but will it actually run alright? i dont mind rejetting it.

 

[addo]

I love the ZA-ZD Fairlanes! Just for the interior space, and the external styling. Fun rego you've got; I'm planning NOV-84D for my XM w/221.

A Holley 350 should be $50 or less in serviceable condition - try the Torana type people. Otherwise look for an Email/Carter two barrel off a 170-225 Val. Again, ought to be cheap and these are simple, right-sized carbs.

The problem with the 500 is that your venturis are not shaped to generate ideal velocity at the rate of flow they'll experience. So, you get poor atomisation and possibly (probably) poor transitions between fuel circuits, plus poor fuel economy. Maybe it can be sold with the Redline manifold and a good 350 bought? I think Pro Action Spares used to do Holley workovers but no idea on price or current reputation.

If you don't have to launder that shell soon, I may make an offer on any good front sheetmetal. Logistics would play a part, though...

 

[Asa]

you want to upgrade the power but not the brakes?

pretty brave plan if you ask me, a stock 200 will overpower the stock 4-lug drums easily

 

[Anonymous]

pretty brave plan if you ask me, a stock 200 will overpower the stock 4-lug drums easily

you'd better tell ford that - XMs came with 200s as an option with no brake upgrade!

properly adjusted drums that are in good condition are perfectly acceptable. I been driving it to work through heavy traffic and havnt had any problems. whats the point of having 6 pot brembo calipers when I still only have 175 tyres anyway.


yeah the 500 might be a bit over the top. Might just sell the 250 with carb and get a 350. Might get a wade to regrind my 170 cam too.

 

[Asa]

i drove a '67 Mustang with 4-lug drums all around for something like three years

yes, it is possible, but if you get going any speed at all an emergency stop is going to be hairy

and tire width has less to do with traction than you think

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry mate, but if you really have trouble with the drums id say you need to revise your driving habits. they were alright in 1964 and they're fine now. You cant drive it like a late model car, you drive it like a 1964 falcon with 4 wheel drum brakes! This car will never see a racetrack and never be driven hard through the hills!

I agree discs would be better, but doing this on a budget means they're not a priority. the XM was $700, the XP parts car was $500 and my 200ci motor and C4 cost $250. the brakes on my XM have just had $1100 spent on them with new drums, linings, slave pistons, master cylinders etc etc by the previous owner. seems like a waste to throw it all away and spend more money on something to give it 10-20% braking. Id rather spend money installing seatbelts! Its never had them fitted.

 

[xafalcongs]

Sorry mate, but if you really have trouble with the drums id say you need to revise your driving habits. they were alright in 1964 and they're fine now. You cant drive it like a late model car, you drive it like a 1964 falcon with 4 wheel drum brakes! This car will never see a racetrack and never be driven hard through the hills!

No mate, he's not racing, he's just trying to keep up with rush hour traffic. Normal rush hour speed for any US city is between 70-85 mph (about 115 -135 kph) and bumper to bumper. My daily commute puts me on a road where the posted limit is 45mph but the pace is 60-70mph. It is not a place for an old car with old style brakes.

 

[Asa]

Sorry mate, but if you really have trouble with the drums id say you need to revise your driving habits. they were alright in 1964 and they're fine now. You cant drive it like a late model car, you drive it like a 1964 falcon with 4 wheel drum brakes! This car will never see a racetrack and never be driven hard through the hills!

No mate, he's not racing, he's just trying to keep up with rush hour traffic. Normal rush hour speed for any US city is between 70-85 mph (about 115 -135 kph) and bumper to bumper. My daily commute puts me on a road where the posted limit is 45mph but the pace is 60-70mph. It is not a place for an old car with old style brakes.

you gots it
combine that with Florida's rain (as i was living there when driving the mustang, and when it had full drums actually...), and you don't even have to be going fast for things to get interesting

as for a budget, i know it'll be a bit different for you down there, but Granada spindles and brand new everything else but them just cost me approx $120 US