My Tempo EFI conversion

Ill send you a pm to see if i can help at all.

Yea i have a narrowband o2 sensor, a one wire one (it doesn't work at idle speeds) lol im so cheap. I "turned AE off" by unplugging my broken TPS sensor. You can tell if its on or not by looking at the tuning screen and seeing if this gauge is moving when you push the throttle, if the AE is off it will stay at %100 all the time (its at %50 in the picture because the Megasquirt computer is off)...

AE gauge

Yours might be named differently...

For tuning with a datalog, its not to hard once you do it a few times. (im using a MS1, so it could be very different that what you need to do.) At first i was a little thrown off by there being no TPS reading (because mine broke), but once you get use to reading and knowing what the MAP sensor does and comparing it to the RPM and o2 Reading, you dont really need anything else.

For example, if you see this...

condition example

The RPM is at 1000 (very low,) the map is at 80 (means im almost full throttle,) and the o2 is at 0.0volts (means im very lean.)

You would want to increase the VE plot around these points... This is an old example, as this lean spot is not in my VE table anymore, but i would have increase my VE table in the 80's part of the MAP and the 1000-1200 rpm part. It would be in this area...

Example 2

Just a few % increase at a time.
 
I have a 1994 Tempo w/ 2.3. just got the hayes manual for it that covers '84-'94's the book tells nothing on injector preassure or flow rating. only useful information it has in this case is zilch. injector retaining screw torque spec is 18-22 in /lbs, if that's useful. injector is unconventional it seems, but possibly a CFI 6cyl injector would swap? this book dosn't cover the 6cyl stuff well at all.
 
The last few weeks have been crazy. Here is where im at so far. I changed the table's range a little bit, it seemed that when i was at a VERY steady cruz i would get into the 25kpa range, so for more accurate tuning (and better mpg) i changed the minimum map reading to 25kpa. Ive slowly been lowering the RequiredFuel, and each time i lower it i run it for a day and check for lean spots. Fix them, then lower the RequiredFuel again...

Right now, at cruze its running at ~15-1 afr. light accel ~14-1. medium-high ~13-1.

11-01 .msq
Right click save as, rename to "anyname.msq"

This is still a work in progress.
 
Ive been driving my falcon everyday now for a month. Its been doing very good. I just wanted to give some tips on what not to do in regards to the fuel delivery system.

1) Putting your fuel pump and filter in the trunk may sound like a good idea (it did at the time!), but its not... The fuel pump will not be able to suck gas up to itself, and you will get unreliable fuel pressure. I had to remount the pump below the trunk, but it actually turned out to be a very easy thing to do. Everything came together well.

2) unless you can recall when you last cleaned/replaced your gas tank, its dirty... deal with it. When i had my pump out for relocation, i saw a bit of crud on the screen on the "in" side of the pump. (i thought there was a screen on the pickup inside the gas tank as well???) I ended up taking mine out and sloshing gas around in it to try and get everything out, then i actually put a filter in front of the fuel pump. I should have just replaced the tank, and i will someday, but for now a filter will have to do.

I think other than more tuning and fixing the TPS, im done with this thing. The single injector seems to be handling the 200ci well. At idle im getting 2.0ms injector pulse width. (on the low side, but acceptable.) At 2500rpm - full throttle, im getting %64 duty cycle @~13-1afr and 15psi fuel pressure. Ill start doing high rpm pulls sometime soon.

I dont know for sure until i get the high rpm tuned, but i dont think this setup will supply enough fuel wile maintaining a decent idle pulse width for a turbo application. That being said, i think it is a VERY easy way to get into the EFI game. And if you decide you wanted to go turbo afterwords, you have all the EFI equipment in your car already and you know its working, and you know how to work on it. If anyone wants photo's of something specific or has any questions, id be glad to post/answer them.
 
Glad to hear its going well. I got my caddy running pretty good now. If it was not winter and time to store the cars I would dig into the stang. Im running a 2bbl 670 cfm TB with 2 85lbhr injectors on a 500 cuin motor. The 'experts' said there is no way this would work. So far so good. I have noticed that my car almost never gets above 3000rpm. I think the same thing will be true for the 6's. The 2.5 was a higher rpm motor, the 6's are lower so cfm wise at given speeds should be fairly close. I did pick up another tempo TBI assy today for $7 complete with harness and green injector. This spring I am for sure going to do it on the mustang. I hope to find a winter project to work on and keep my Megasquirt skills sharp so the stang will be quick and easy.

Are you doing anything for spark control yet? I am still running my recurved stock setup but cant wait to get into the spark control part. I had a detonation problem and just turned the dizzy back a bit to be safe. It lost a noticeable amount of power. I put in a stop to limit the vacuum advance and set the base back to where I started and things really started to wake up with no changes to the fuel map. I am thinking that tweaking the timing on that 12x12 will get more power and drive ability at the same time.
 
Moe$":2daqh1hn said:
That being said, i think it is a VERY easy way to get into the EFI game. . . . If anyone wants photo's of something specific or has any questions, id be glad to post/answer them.
Click to expand...

Congrats on a pioneering success, Moe$. A pick-ur-parts, low-cost, computer-monitored upgrade.

Have you run any tests to see if there is an improvement in (a) mileage, or (b) horsepower over the stock carb set up?

Do you have anyway to determine if the TBI you grafted onto the log gets a better mixture of air and fuel to the intakes at the far ends of the log (cylinders 1 and 6)?

I am considering your upgrade because I never was happy with the lack of a precise way to set the air/fuel ratio, etc., using a carbed set up.

So I am wondering if you have some further thoughts on these issues, as your upgrade seems cost effective in terms of both installation and long term use.

Thanks.
 
Thanks 65droptop. Unfortunately i cant offer up any numbers :cry: . There is an improvement in power, even my dad noticed it when he was helping me tune it. For mpg, i fill up my car ~ every 2 1/2 weeks now compared to every 2 weeks. I know thats a horrible way of finding an increase in mpg, but my odometer doesn't work so its all i got. Im still running the car fairly rich, so a further increase in mpg is still possible. That is what i like about efi, the ease of changing engine conditions by pressing a few buttons.

Im happy with how this thing turned out. It has been very reliable so far. Ill have a new code posted up here soon, the last one had big lean spots durring full throttle in the 1000rpm range.
 
Moe$":yhdzap5w said:
Im happy with how this thing turned out. It has been very reliable so far. Ill have a new code posted up here soon, the last one had big lean spots durring full throttle in the 1000rpm range.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, Moe$. In other words all the critical factors for a daily driver (power, economy and reliability) improved. Plus, no more voodoo with the carb (as has been my experience). Usually improvements come at a cost, a trade off. Here that is not the case. Which makes this a stand out upgrade. WOW.
 
There is a monetary cost, I would guess $300-500 for the basics. And as with any other Hi tech stuff when it works it works better than any of the old stuff but can quit without warning. What helps to offset that is to get it working you are forced to learn and understand how and why it works so you are more confident in troubleshooting and repairing it yourself.
 
yea sure, %20 addo :D because remembering when you fill up last is the most exact way of calculating fuel consumption.

I agree with TJ, the cost and complexity are both downsides. You can not create/install efi in your car over a weekend, as you can do with a 2bbr carb upgrade. It took me months of troubleshooting :shock:

Also just as TJ said, if any one of 4 critical sensors fail the car will not run. As long as you keep it simple, and take your time doing a good job, efi can be an extremely reliable system (its not unproven technology or anything :roll: ) And Repair wont be hard. I dont think what i made is complex at all, and troubleshooting with the megasquirt computer is very nice.
 
Bort62":2gtpl0en said:
Moe$":2gtpl0en said:
You can not create/install efi in your car over a weekend, as you can do with a 2bbr carb upgrade.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a challenge...
Click to expand...

Well the first try is likely going to take more than a weekend to get running well. My first try took the whole weekend to get it almost running poorly. My 2nd project I expect to get it running the first day and by the end of the second day should have it fairly drivable.
 
sure, why not. Its a challenge :eek: Bonus points for video taping it.

And this is what i ment that statement to say... "An average person with no experiance with efi can not create/intall efi in your car over a weekend, as you can do with a 2bbr carb upgrade."


Infact, this is a shorter version of what i ment to say... "murphy's law, murphy's law, and o yea murphy's law."
 
haha, well - i've done it before. It took me a weekend that time, and that was a much more complicated system. (Chevy TPI)

Now, that wasn't perfect in a weekend, but driving in a weekend.

I'm putting my hp pump in now, so the only other stuff I need is the MS and a TB.

probably be a few months before I go that way.
 
Sorry if this is too much of a thread derailment.. but I couldn't decide if this was better here, or merited its own thread. I'll copy it to its own thread if needed. Also, apologies if it's hard to read.. caffeine hasn't kicked in yet.


1) Do those Tempo throttle bodies have to be used with the non-upgradable injectors in them, or could they be used just as a small dry throttle body with an injector bung welded into the manifold nearby? (or multiples for multiport)


2) What about running a 250 almost like two separate turbo inline-3s? What I had in mind was two small unconnected intake manifolds (say on the CI aluminum head or an Oz head, or a heavily modified log) each with its own small throttle body.. then two small unconnected exhaust manifolds each with its own turbo from a 2-liter engine. I realize this description may annoy some, but the best way I can think to describe the intakes is to make something looking like the Mopar logo M, put the throttle body where the three legs meet, and put the injector below the TB pointing down the inside of the middle leg. (I can try to draw a diagram if I've been too vague in my description)

I'm guessing sensors may have to be doubled up.. and that it's more complicated than a single TB and larger turbo.. but would there be any benefit to doing it like that if it's feasible, even if that benefit is something not immediately obvious like saving weight vs. a larger manifold? Also, if you've read my thread on my plans to build for low revs, (idle to 4000) would the really short intake lengths negatively impact that?
 
FrankBoss":1j3cebjz said:
I think running two smaller ones would be good... yes you can make them opperate in sink off one TPS. and with two you can possition them more centeral to the cilanders, putting a simi-divider in the log carb opening and making two new holes on each side.
Those little TBs are ready to plumb since they have their own Hat. hook up the hose to a filter or a force induction device....Funny I have a pair of little turbos waiting for me to put then on something:)

I'm not anywere close to being sharp enought to build a MS by myeself so I will look for some help....but it looks like its do-able.

I did look at the 5.0 and 3.8 TBs.... I might swap out all my old carbed cars to EFI if this works....yippy...maybe not

Frank
Click to expand...

Not to beat a dead horse about multiple TBs but I found this place (I have no affiliation with these folks) that has some interesting items and not too expensive in the FI world. Lots of possiblities here.

http://www.extrudabody.biz/servlet/StoreFront

I like the fact that you can use whatever you want, however you want & someone will laud you for it and someone will bitch & moan about it :LOL:
 
LincolnMarkVII

1) Yes you could use a tempo TBI as a throttle body with injectors welded on the manifold. Its my opinion though that if you are in need of a throttle body only, it would look much slicker to get an actual throttle body, one that didnt have all the extra baggage (injector, restrictor, ect...) attached and not being used. Just my opinion though :D

2) wow, a 250 with CI head and twin turbos, that sounds like quite an engine! I am a little confused by your description on how the intake manifold will look. Im not sure about the runner length, i hope someone more informed of turbos can help you there :D As for the efi part, if both turbos are the same size, or if you had only one intake manifold with twin turbos, i dont think you would have to double up on sensors (i think).
 
Moe$, how's your Falcon running with the Tempo EFI? I'm giving serious thought to doing a similar swap on my 64 Fairlane
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top