new rockers = getting engine started

[barishiman]

Ok, so I finally got replacement roller-tipped rockers and tomorrow I plan to start the engine in four months. I have some grease that I plan on putting atop the valve stems and pushrods to eliminate friction. I've taken out the pertronix unit and put the points back into the 67 dizzy.

Now should start the car with the new 67 dizzy or the old 65 dizzy? Will there be a difference? maybe the vacuum lines? Also on installation, it should be this:
the 1st piston should be TDC and in the revolution of the intake valve opening. The dizzy rotor should be placed before the 1 on the dizzy cap prior to firing the engine.

I plan to keep the pushrods loose and will do a compression check if I can get the engine to run. Is there anything I'm missing or not clear about?

Thanks again!

 

[wsa111]

andrew, you can adjust the rockers before starting the engine, then do a follow up after camshaft brake in or rocker arm brake in. place each lobe on the base circle. adjust with 1/2 turn of the rocker arm adjustment preload. this right out of the competion cams technical staff advice.
after initial brake in with the engine hot, do the same adjustment & you will be right on. good luck william

 

[addo]

We're all keen for it to work this time.

The #1 should be at 10° BTDC (amost like you say), and both valves closed. The intake will have closed last before the piston rose to the top.

If your rockers are too loose, they may spit the pushrods. Make sure that you're only talking a little clearance.

I'd use the '67 dizzy. The trick I learnt was to put it in with the points rough set, wire 12V power to the coil and rotate the dizzy anticlockwise until the coil lead just sparked. That'll give you firing pretty much on the degrees advance I suggested above.

Adam.

 

[barishiman]

thanks guys. The day is getting warmer and I'll roll out the old girl into the warm sunlight later today. I have some errands to run then it's back to the books making sure everything is right. Crossing my fingers.

 

[barishiman]

I've got a fire!!!!! Once I had everything tightend down and all the fluids checked I thought it was time to start the car. I hooked up the battery and turned the key... nothing. So I turned the the to start position, I was getting power but the car wasn't cranking. I then went to Advance to buy me a new battery, coil, and wires (just in case). I just put the battery in and the car started to crank but the car wasn't firing. After a few tries I had a four inch flame shoot out of the carb. Sounds like the carb is backfiring.

so what do I need to do? Am I 180 out? Do I need to realign the dizzy? I'd like to get this car started tonight if possible. I'm off to Kentucky thursday so I'm really wanting this car at least to idle. Four months has went by since this car last ran.

 

[addo]

You might be 180° out, you might be 1 wire out... Maybe even just not enough advance.

Remember that for successful firing both valves need to be shut. For backfire to occur, an intake is likely open. My suggestion is pull the valve cover and rotate the motor until you can first see the #1 intake start to perform its "cycle". As it closes, keep turning until you're about on the "10" of your timing pointer before the zero. In other words, ten advanced.

Now you need to get the dizzy in so that the rotor button is aligned with the post for the #1 wire, and the cam is just (almost imperceptibly) opening the points. This is your starting position.

See how you go this time.

Adam.

 

[barishiman]

Adam, you are the man!!!! I should buy you a beer... No! better yet a pitcher of your favorite beer!!

I have the car idling in park but not in gear. This is the same problem I had the last time I had the car idling. I am more leaning toward the tranny. For some reason it won't engage into gear when I shift it into drive and if it does catch, the engine then starts to starve to gas and dies a few seconds later. Maybe I my timing isn't advanced enough?

As for advancing the timing, I can't move the dizzy much further before it hits the oil dipstick. I feel that if I align the vacuum advance to #6 (like I did with my 65 dizzy) the timing would turn out ok and maybe the car would be able to run in gear.

I plan to work on the car sunday after I get back from Kentucky.

Adam, just Brilliant!

 

[addo]

Good to hear it worked for you. The dying in D may simply be low idle speed. If you want to rotate the whole dizzy, just ensure that the rotor doesn't move relative to the body of the unit when you pull and reinsert it. A small scratch or mark on the edge of the housing to align with the rotor tip can help.

Seeing as you're heading into summer, the lads in Ga might be better off with that beer.

 

[Anonymous]

Just a bit of info...

make sure your vacume lines to the tranny are connected and not leaking... and make sure you have enough fluid in there as well...
both of those could cause the problems you are having... C4 I assume? IIRC...


J.

 

[Anonymous]

I can't move the dizzy much further before it hits the oil dipstick.

I am no where near the oil dipstick...

can this vary per application? when I am at TDC...is the dizzy in the same place as others at TDC?

like I said...I am no where near the oil dipstick...

 

[Anonymous]

I ran into the cleareance problem on my all stock 65' when i was doing the timing. We'd get close to the correct timing then hit the block. So we just figured we were a tooth off and moved it a tooth over and solved the clearance problem and got the timing set right. And that was a long time needed, i looked under my hood one night after traveling threw a corn feild (damn kids ) to make sure everything was still ok, and my exhaust manifold was glowing red. And that was after the shop tunned it, never went back there again. But after that it made it from nebraska to washington and then to california where i'm currently at.

 

[barishiman]

After a long three days in Kentucky, I'm back from driving and then sleeping most of the day. Jimbo, you had it right, I do have the C4 tranny. The time I ran the engine four months ago I did some vacuum checks and everything was ok. My readings matched those from my shop manual yet I still had the same problem. Tomorrow I'll check my lines, do some readings and let the car warm up the tranny fluid. Maybe I can get it to run in gear, hopefully.

 

[barishiman]

It's hot down here in GA, up to 81. I rolled out the car today with Nascar playing in the background. Warmed up the car for a bit before downing my compression checks.

Warm
1.) 160
2.) 155
3.) 100
4.) 150
5.) 160
6.) 100

Wet
3.) 110
6.) 115

The results are similiar to those I had four months ago. I don't think my piston rings are bad on 3 & 6 since the readings didn't increase considerably. The valves are all new, and the bent valves have been replaced. I am narrowing it down to not adjusting the valves correctly. I've been adjusting my valves according to Adam:

As to adjusting valves: Your method of adjusting one when the other starts to open allows nothing for overlap, the way I see it. The foolproof way is to get #1 on TDC compression. Both #1 rockers are not under pressure, so you can easily see whether you are on the correct TDC.

Adjust 1 Intake, 1 Exhaust, 2 Intake, 3 Exhaust, 4 Intake, 5 Exhaust.

•Rotate the crank 360° Can you see a pattern yet?

Adjust 2 Exhaust, # Intake, 4 Exhaust, 5 Intake, 6 Exhaust, 6 Intake.

That's it. The correct tension is when you can feel slightest drag upon spinning pushrod between the thumb and forefinger, adjust one full turn.

I trust Adam very much since his advice got my car started. But I guess I am having difficulty with adjusting the valves correctly. My manual says to rotate the motor 1/3 of a turn to adjust each valve in firing order, but I can't tell if I'm making a 1/3 correctly. I noticed that when I tried to guesstimate it, a piston would come to TDC then another turn and the same thing. Should I follow this pattern as each piston reaches TDC in firing order I should then adjust those set of valves.

Also when I pulled the plugs they looked favorably good since the last time. 1, 2, 4 were clean, 3 had a little carbon, 5 & 6 had oil on them. I also noticed that when I did the compression test, white smoke puffed out of 5 when I cranked the motor. Where I am with this?

Should I go back to stock setup with 1brl carb and 65 dizzy? My father thinks that with all the mods that's the reason the car is running so badly. I think otherwise, but I what do I know.

What do you guys think?

 

[Lazy JW]

Here is the method that I use most of the time: Rotate the engine in the direction of normal operation, observe the valves as they do their up-and-down thing on the cylinder of your choice. When the exhaust moves down and then closes, the intake will follow immediately after. As soon as the intake just closes, stop, observe where the crank pulley is at, then rotate the engine another 180 degrees or a little less. This will put that cylinder close to TDC. No, it won't be perfectly at TDC, but it is most certainly close enough. The critical detail is that the lifters MUST be on the base circle of the cam. This backyard procedure gets you well within the important criteria. Another (similar) method is to mark the distributor at the spark plug terminals, pull the distributor cap, and then rotate the engine until the rotor points to the mark for the cylinder that you are working on. Either method gets you far enough away from the cam lobes to be safe. Then simply adjust the lifters according to the directions. I have used this method on four cylinders, sixes, eights, singles, twins, triples, and diesels with universal success.
Joe