Pony Carbs Autolite 1100 1v annular discharge?

[ludwig]

Who told you to change the jet? You or Pony? Just wondering because John at Pony NEVER recommends any change from stock. But that is real good to hear. I've been thinking about that annular discharge carb for a while.

 

[MPGmustang]

beleive it or not, Jon at pony did, I called him up after ym 2nd dyno, and informed him I'm looking to reach the better A/F ratio, I too was running 14:1 on the stock, well, he recemended 62.5, well I'm not going to mess with halfs and have found better top end with a 65 than with any other on my modded engine... I never got the chance to try other jets on the stock engine.

 

[ludwig]

cool

 

[170-3tree]

Was that the only thing you changed to get those mileage improvements? Those are fantastic! And as I'm getting about 22-25mpg (mixed driving) now hopefully I hit a pretty happy number when mine comes (a rebuilt 2.77 and front suspension rebuild will only help more when she's back on the road)

 

[Frankenstang]

And as I'm getting about 22-25mpg (mixed driving) now

Those aren't bad numbers you got there IMO. Best so far with my Vaporizer was 24mpg (almost exclusively hi-way miles on that tank). Worst so far (almost all city miles) 14mpg. However, mine developed a rich 'idle' condition about 6-7 months ago that couldn't be tuned out...likely float out of adjustment or buildup on the seat. Currently awaiting it's return from some upgrades by Pony as mine was an early production model (although taking a little longer than I expected/hoped). Will soon have some base line numbers from a standard fare manual choke 1100 I've been running the last couple weeks to compare against...once V1100 gets back. Good luck!

 

[170-3tree]

Well It should be here any time with the DUI unit and eventually I will have a new suspension and transmission in the following weeks. I'm hoping to break 30mpg's with other added modifications, but that seems highly hopeful to me right now. I'm also running the 170 which is probably why i'm still higher without the vaporizer.
I am very interested in your baseline numbers with the standard 1100.

 

[Frankenstang]

I'm also running the 170 which is probably why i'm still higher without the vaporizer.
I am very interested in your baseline numbers with the standard 1100.

You're probably right about the 170. Rickwrench has posted the highest MPG that I've seen in his 170-wagon setup
Good luck on breaking 30mpg...that would be awesome

I should have to fill her up tonight or tomorrow so I'll have first tank numbers with the man-choke 1100, but expect I'll get a tank or two more under my belt to compare to before the V1100 makes it back & gets re-installed. I'll be sure to track/post the numbers for comparison. I'd like to do some minor tinkering (e.g. adding elec choke to the V1100 vs heated choke, or removing my CDI, to compare some before/after effects on mpg...although doing each in isolation).

 

[chad]

each in isolation
Now there's a good scientist...


Hey, can't anyone with a drill press make the 1100 into a anular discharge. What else is different? (no need to reveal any secrets by those in sales/other parts of the company). I just want better for my rig and mileage. Gotta use it to it's best, no $ to purchase anything else.

May B I just don't understand the changes for $400. (no need to answer, it's more about carb technology). I know the R&D is steep. The manufacturing too. A carb must be a copula hundred...

Showin my ignorance (" 'S how U learn, son.")

 

[bubba22349]

1100 & 1101 are all ready an anular discharge so no drilling needed.

 

[170-3tree]

For me the biggest price of that value is getting something new, I have tried four or five of the rebuilt 1100's and they all have issues, I finally have one that isn't too terrible, but I'm hoping that the new one might have even better straight quality than the current rebuilt one, maybe a slightly smoother idle, less need for choke to avoid the off idle flat spot thattypically leaves me trying to get my car started into an intersection in rush hour. The possibilities that it will do all that and more only adds to my reasons for spending that much.

 

[Frankenstang]

1100 & 1101 are all ready an anular discharge so no drilling needed.

Welll...EDIT: not really...the original 1100's and 1101's are actually still straight dogleg discharges to the booster venturi

Stock 100 Innards


While the most promoted difference by Pony is the "VAPORIZER with True Annular Discharge " (ooohhh, aaahhhh...where's a good 'Price is Right' model with elegant hand sweep when you need one)

Pony Vaporizer Innards - 1

Is it worth the price of admission...like an old high school teacher of mine would say, "it's like the sign outside the mortuary...remains to be seen"

Hi Chad, man I dig your ride 8)

Hey, can't anyone with a drill press make the 1100 into a anular discharge. What else is different?

I imagine the booster venturi could be copied/reproduced with some 'fairly' precision ingenuity/parts, as to the additional 'trade secrets'...well, I'm not sure as yet. I do have some other pics of the guts of the V1100 (pilfered from the web) that I'll post, but haven't had the time to do a side to side comparison.

For me the biggest price of that value is getting something new, I have tried four or five of the rebuilt 1100's and they all have issues, I finally have one that isn't too terrible,

I agree with this affirmation...I own at least one 'Champion' rebuilt 1100 that was just bastardized (pardon the expression).
This is not a pic of it below, but of the nice clean ("unrebuilt" by hi-volume lo-quality rebuilders) 1100 man choke I found after some searching. Picture is for illustration purposes. Basically the hi-volume/lo-quality rebuilder filled the larger accel pump intake passage on the right in pic with solder/epoxy :fume: And the discharge weight on the left was nowhere to be found :roll:


Again is it worth the big $ difference...hopefully time will tell. I'm a committed 'one-barreler' for now :mrgreen: So it was worth it to me, even as a 'beta tester'.

each in isolation
Now there's a good scientist...

:rolflmao: a scientist who's favorite labratory instrument is a BFH

 

[chad]

...are already annular discharge...

Oh, I thought that's what Pony did TO them. It's been 8 or 9 yrs since I read their add I guess. So they rebuild them, die grind off the imperfections, etc??? Wonder what ford would charge for 1 if they even got em?

If I could aford one I'd like the tq (no automiotive engeneering theory here but of use in rig in the below sig.) and mileage is signifigant factor for this fella who's unemployment $ just expired. (Skid those logs, plow that drive better).

 

[ludwig]

Pony claims to have re-engineered the interior to eliminate the original factory installed weaknesses. I don't know what they were but the annular discharge is probably step two of this process: they further improve the performance of the improved carb. I don't know since I never had the factory item. I have been very happy with the pre-annular model of Pony carb. I'm willing to try the annular discharge. I have an extra Pony 1100. Maybe I'll just chuck up a 3/32 bit and do some bench top mods to it soon.

 

[Frankenstang]

...are already annular discharge...

Oh, I thought that's what Pony did TO them.

Actually the original 1100 and 1101 are NOT annualar discharge. They are what is usually referred to as 'down-leg' or 'dog-leg' dishcarge.

Here's a good article discussing the subtle and not so subtle diff's in carb booster/venturi discharge
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0 ... index.html

They are also entirely NEW body castings with all new parts...these pics might help show some of the differences compared to the stock 1100's (i.e. versus 1st thumbnail above [edited above post to label the pics more clearly]...I think there might be another one or two more pics of orig 1100's body internals in my PB album, or I'll add a couple when I have a chance).

Pony Vaporizer Innards - 2

Pony Vaporizer Innards - 3


I believe they still offer their rebuild/upgrade service to stock 1100's/1101's (last I heard it was around $200), but do not know if they offer the "annular discharge" as an upgrade on stockers....my guess noting some casting diffs in the pics is they don't.

 

[chad]

Sorry to jack-a-thread n make U all do "catch up" for me.
Better go back to lurkin
:roll:

o0OOPPps- 1 last 1:
What did they just do to change/upgrade?

 

[Frankenstang]

No harm, no foul here I dont' think design differences of the Vaporizer have been covered at any great length, so no time like the present. Just making a correction/clarification and adding some pics...I'm sure others would & have done the same for me :nono: No offense to bubba...I hope he knows that...I must lack some degree of internet forum tact or I've got a size 13 mouth, take your pick.

What did they just do to change/upgrade?

If you're referring to their "stock" 1100 change/upgrade/rebuild, Ludwig or another forum member who has used that service might know better there. I will say non-parenthetically That I had been told one of the upgrade/changes they made to stockers was a richer jet...from there I'm not sure. Maybe they dealt with enigmas like the 1100 'power valve' (not to be confused with the accel pump). Carb kits usually just state, "do not remove/service".
EDIT: I'd assume they also correct carb components to factory specs/function like the accel pump checks, weight, anti-stall dashpot, choke, etc. I think their concours resto inludes cadmium plating the upper air horn as well, such that you couldn't necessarily tell a Pony Concours Restoration from a Pony Vaporizer except for the annular booster.

I appreciate being able to have an unecumbered discussion about the value and merits of all straight six products thanks to efforts of our generous host

 

[ludwig]

They said that the original was boggy at low RPM and had a hard to defeat stumble. They corrected this internally. I don't know what they did. Clearly it was something with the fuel flow and the accelerator pump. I have been very happy with my Pony 1100. Once I did the ram air, it got real perky on the highway.

The Pony carbs, both the conventional 1100 they sell and the vaporizer, are their own design. However, they take the original carb bodies as rebuildable cores, so the changes must have something to do with either the installed bits or some sort of permanent bench-top mod. That tops out my sophistication about the carb.

 

[bubba22349]

There is no offense taken Frankenstang, don't have any experience with the Pony carbs weather it's a rebuilt Autolite 1100/1101 or a new Vaporizer. From the pictures and info their rebuilds do look first rate for a restoration type car project. I would sure like to try a Vaporizer someday if I get the chance. Always rebuilt my own carbs as well as for other's. In my experience the Autolite was a great carb and would usually do just a little better on the economy side than the other stock carbs to me this is because of the venturi booster. So if Pony made it even better on the performance side this sounds like a plus to me. Only have one Autolite 1V 1101 core left they seam to be getting much harder to find now, so I am very interested this new carb's theory and design so keep it going would like to see all the details stock Autolite Vs a Vaporizer. Have been reading along on the posts for me schools in session and am ready to learn something.

Edited

 

[chad]

You ALL are very generous with your comments. Thank you. NOW I C there is a vaporizer as well as standard/earlier pony sells... that they're both the autol.1100 (series) and came orig w/annular 'fuel discharge', that the vaporizer is the newest 'upgrade'?
Thanks again. I think for the tq (not HP) I seek & a low profile (hood clearance) my carter YF is fine (already pushin it w/a 250 in a bronk). Would like the the tune-ability and combined milage/power of other models but do not wish to (my language) hafta monkey with it much. Set-it-n-forget-it is how I cook my dinner as well. :mrgreen:

 

[Frankenstang]

I should have to fill her up tonight or tomorrow so I'll have first tank numbers with the man-choke 1100, but expect I'll get a tank or two more under my belt to compare to before the V1100 makes it back & gets re-installed.

I am very interested in your baseline numbers with the standard 1100.

Well it's been a long time to get back to this, but finally have a few tanks for comparison running this old original, manual choke 1100...the numbers are pretty disappointing though have been using same grade of fuel and location, and trying to fuel about the same time of day in practice....

Tank 1 Avg. Mpg 15.00
Tank 2 Avg. Mpg 14.68
Tank 3 Avg. Mpg 16.64

overall avg 15.44 mpg***
(since it got warm pretty much have never had to use the man. choke)

These may speak more to my lack of time and ability to tune this 1100 (when I rebuilt it on the fly I did not have a new main jet, so I'm pretty sure that's costing me some mpg's), but idle and performance is good (no stumbles, no flat spots).

However, have had some trouble getting the idle to say down at 500rpm while idling (may need to tighten my return spring...have to give the throttle a bump at every light/stop to drop her down completely...need to check over the linkage too). Might also have the float set a little low but it doesn't smell too rich at idle, and perfomance is good, but do need to do a plug read to verify.

I believe this is a ca. 1963 man. choke 1100 but plan to mic the venturi to be sure (the 'butt meter' seems to indicate there is not as much getup-n-go as before)...I was really surprised by the numbers compared to the last couple tanks on the vaporizer before sending it in for upgrades (especially when I knew she'd developed a rich idle condition I couldn't tune out).

Vaporizer Tank 1 Avg Mpg 20.30
Vaporizer Tank 2 Avg Mpg 13.77
Vaporizer Tank 3 Avg Mpg 23.03
Vaporizer Tank 4 Avg Mpg 14.56
Vaporizer Tank 5 Avg Mpg 18.60
Vaporizer Tank 6 Avg Mpg 18.47

overall avg 18.12 mpg***

***On average higher mileage tanks relfect a relative greater degree of hwy driving...and I'd describe my driving style as 'aggressive' or 'lead foot'.

Unfortunately have not logged as many miles with the old man. choke 1100 as I would have liked (no a/c and it got way too dang hot here in Tx, way too fast, other projects getting in the way, etc...insert excuse here____) mostly relegated to short weekend drives and evening grocery gets.

The good news...thankfully heard from Scott yesterday and my updated/upgraded Vaporizer is finally headed home
Hope to re-tune this old 1100 or another and run some new base numbers later on versus the updated/upgraded Vaporizer, but looking forward to putting the V1100 back on first after a plug read