replace 200 with a1972 250 or just not worth the hassle ?

mustangpoor07

New member
Hey guys, Im new on here but have been reading post and articles for about two years now. I have a 66 mustang with the original 200 six that was rebuilt about 2k miles ago, only real upgrade I know of was a E280101 cam installed. This engine runs pretty good but looking for a little more gitty up. My original plan was a V8 conversion but have decided to stay with the six just because its diffrent, pretty cool not to mention real torquey !!!!!!
I have read allot about the large log head swap and have been searching for a large log head to buy and I just found a '72 250 engine complete in real good running condition for $200 (guy is doing a V8 conversion). My question is am I going to see or get much gain in performance going with this 250 or should I continue to look for the large log head to go on my current 200 six ? My car has a new T5 tranny with the original 7.5 rear although I have an 8" rear that Im going to install as soon as I get the time.
Thanks for any help.
Marc
 
Well if you want a little more power you have a good base to work from with your recent rebuild and cam. The 72 250 head will flow more than what you have but not as much as a later 78-81 head. You could direct mount a 2100 to the 250 head, mill for compression, 3 angle valve job and port and polish it would be a pretty good increase. Kind of depends on how easy and quickly you can find a later head. Get the Duraspark and headers to make it real nice. Apparently it makes a big difference if you have your distributor custom curved for your build and there is a member on here that can do that for you, fordsedandelivery I think.
Or consider putting the 250 in your Mustang, it is a good torque maker even stock. I am a real fan of the 250 and $200 is a great buy.
The t5 is a good performance addition, the best standard trans in my opinion.
Get a copy of the Ford Falcon Performance Manual from classicinlines.com, it is the resource for inline six owners.
 
Get the whole engine, and use the head on your current engine. It'll fit, they are no different.
Do some mild pocket porting on the new head and whatever else you want.

The bonus is you'll have a 250 block sitting around to contemplate rebuilding. :p
I have my doubts as to whether or not there is much seat of the pants difference between the two heads under normal driving conditions. But 50 extra cubes will make a difference.
 
Someone wrote a real nice treatise on the pro/con of the 250 swap, and it was awesome. It got into actial gains (not linear to volume) vs fairly substantial weight increases. With the aluminum head I'd lean toward the 250. With a log head I'd stay 200. That's shooting from the hip wnot a scientific analysis.
 
I've delt with both, and its not really one or the other. Its the one you get you'll like.

I learned to drive in L code 250 I6'S, and only recently got back into the 200 B-code I6. Is it worth the change to a 250? Heck yeah!!!, but you can't go wrong no matter which one you get ;) Each has its strengths. As a 25 year old, I loved the 250. As a 42 year old, I love the 200. Not a question of which engine, just that even with both in your driveway, you'll be hard pressed to hate one or absolutely love the other. My neighbour had a 1984 3.3 5-speed and I had a 1984 4.1 3 speed autoin my drive, and was hard pressed to find which one was the 'best'. We used to swap which one we drove. I lived at 1000 feet, and used to travel from there to the sea board each day, and the 250 was best up the hills, but used more fuel, while the 200 was sweeter and more economical, a manual gearbox made up for the power I lost using an automatic on my 250. A T5 will make up for the 9% loss in power a 200 has over a 250, but a T5 250 will drive better than a 5.0a round town. Decisions decisions....

xctasy":3429wro4 said:
Yes, the 250 torque is always worth it, its a proportional 25% improvement over the 200. Its under a lot less stress than the 200 because of that factor alone. On a 250 with an aftermarket head with big 1.625" ports, like the 2V 250 or Classic Inlines head, is really made for the 250, it works best on that engine size. Its because you gain back a huge amount of street drivability and a lot of low end torque that a high spinning 200 2V or Aluminum head CI 200 engine won't have. That is the back drop to its true worth. An especially easy to find engine since its in the worlds most ignored cars. The L and C code 250's from 12 years of Rancheros, Mavericks, Monarachs and Grannies. You find those under any spreading tree or urban breaker that hasn't smeltered the iron for WallMart cans or drill presses. In its first year it was rated strong, but the combo wasn't as good as its power rating. In any case, the L-code got rated as 155 to 145 hp gross verses 120 or 115 hp T-code , or the C-code 99 hp net verses the T and B code 85 to 92 hp. The 250/4.1 is always a slightly more powerfull than 200 engine that lookes the same but is a lot more sublime than its little brother.

Checked neagatives against it:
The Power increase on a stock 250 verses a stock 200 isn't proportional, its only 9% at best. Case for case for any similar engine combo. US 250 vs US 200, Aussie 250 verses Aussie 200, Same if its cross flow, 3.2 or 3.9 OHC, turbo, Classic Inline headed, and certainly the case when the stock air flow limited head is used.

When the 9% boost in power is Factored against the 6%to sometimes 12% weight increase, most of it over the nose, some of it over the tail, the weight then makes the steering heavier, requiring power assistance for some people, the engine 460 pounds verses 385 pounds, but with the better transmissions and diffs and suspension and braking quality required to contain the grunt, your looking at well over 150 pounds of extra mass. So that 9% potential power boost driven through a 250/C4 is no advantage over a 200 with T5. Proven many times

I have an example, a good T-5 3.3 did 17.9 sec 1.4 mile in a Aussie 1980's Falcon, but only 18 secs for an auto 4.1. On their 2-bbl engines with 2v 250 intake flow rates of 145 cfm at 25"H20, thats 121 hp verses 131 hp. Average US Miles per gallon for the 3.3 was 27.2 mpg, but only 22 mpg for the auto 4.1 which was often 12% heavier with extra appointments (a/c, auto, power steering)

The 250 is sort of like a 2V Windsor 351 or 400 Ford compared to the 289 or 302, an engine unresponsive to small modifications compared to the 200. But when its given a free flowing cylinder head like Mikes, a good triple hole intake manifold, proper pistons deck to block clearance, and its then cammed, carbed up and exhasted properly, it then becomes a standout engine, and the weight, size and donkey minded stubburness is made up for by its strength. 100 pounds of extra block, gearbox and diff are nothing. Then it shows its true mettle. With the head, pistons and rods are upgraded, this long stroke best with a turbo upgrade can get proportional 25% power boosts because big engines love turbos more than little ones. It is then propable one of the worlds most responsive engine to cam changes, they just lap up longer durations cams that really shouldn't work. Check out Cortina 6, or XD/XE/XF Falcon or Fairmont turboon youtube. 11 second 2600 to 3600 pound turbo and Xlfow machines galore. That's why the Aussies make any turbo or 4-bbl or EFI 250 into such a potential sub 11 second animal;its the cam and the ability to get those heads to flow that make those birds fly. Same applies to the US 250, as its got a heart of pure steel.

The only real negatives are the cast rods, the 103 thou piston to cylinder head short fall, and the extra 1.67 inches of deck height in the engine that make it such a pest to package...Weight and the rest is easy to cope with.
 
I think I misinterpreted your original post. You were asking if you should use the 250 to replace your 200, I thought you were asking if you should use the 250 head on your 200. Yes I would look for a large log head since you have a rebuilt engine. If you have room the 250 may be good to have for the future just in case you decide to go that way. I agree they are both great engines.
The large log heads are available, check wrecking yards or wanted ads on craigslist I found a whole engine that way.
66 Mustang is nice.
 
Thanks guy for all your input, I passed on the 250 engine because I found a 1980 large log head for $80 plus $25 to clean and magnaflux . Now I will start to modify it while I still drive my 66 until the head is ready.
 
Good choice!

Enjoy the work ahead. The E0 head is really strong, and you can do anything to it.
 
Good plan-wherever you are living it seems like there are available six parts priced well. Keep us informed on your progress.
 
I think U made a good choice just swapping to the big log head, especially since it gives more carb choices.

xctasy gave a nice summary leaning toward the 200 over the 250 or at least a draw.
I actually was betting the other way, the old "you cant beat cubic inches" theme, because I had a direct experience with this swap tho it was on a Brand X (Chev). I swapped my doggy 194cid for a 250cid, 3spd-3.08 in back. The 250 was like nite and day. Popped the clutch and left 2 black streaks in my driveway. 0-60mph went from 13.0 with the 194 to low-11s with the 250.

But then I ran some numbers on your car with the WerbyFord Gonkulator.
I had to guess at some things, but the 250 vs 203 Ford is not the same as my 250 vs 194 Chev experience. Here is what the Gonkulator said, take it FWIW:

I used 9.2cr for your 203cid based on its year, and a soggy-deck 8.0cr for the 250 you had looked at. I also assumed a 3.55 gear, stock tires, and stock exhaust on your Mustang. If these are bad assumptions somebody say so!

I then ran your 203cid thru the Gonkulator, with the big log head and bigger YF carb from the 250, and your Erson 208-208-111 cam. Gonkulator said
Torq 177 at 3300
Powr 136 at 4500
2.33 60ft
11.00 at 62.5 1/8 mi
17.37 at 76.4 1/4 mi

I then ran the ~50lb heavier 250 with the Gonkulator. I did swap in your Erson cam to be fair, otherwise the 250 as you'd buy it:
Torq 203 at 3000
Powr 135 at 4200 (yup, 1hp LOWER than the higher CDR 203cid)
2.36
11.01 at 62.4
17.32 at 77.7

So seeing those (admittedly Gonkulator) results, I think you'd have to rework any 250 to make it keep up with the 200 in YOUR case. Of course if you build&prep the car its a different matter.

In any case looks like you are on a good path. Maybe you can get some timeslips first, then swap to the bigger log head (and carb..) and test again?
 
maybe you all can give me a little more advice on this head.......Since I dont know of anyone here in my area of Va that does furnace brazing and it just sounds expensive to get done, what is the recomended metal filler to build up low areas before milling this baby down for a 2V conversion ?
 
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