Roller Lifters in a 250?.....say it ain't so!!

[mike1157]

Took the advice of another member and decided to cut the side of the block to allow me access to link the lifters after they were in the holes. That first required a liberal usage of a 2" hole saw:

I decided to drill one set of holes asymmetrical,( as opposed to cutting holes directly beneath the holes in the lifter galley). This way, I'll only have to make 4 holes instead of 5. Even though it only takes 30 seconds now to link the lifters, I'm sure that once all 12 are in there, it'll get a little more complicated. This first hole will be the "last set in, first set out" hole to make it easier (hopefully)

Once the holes are cut, I'll build a .250 thick plate that will span the length of the block, and bolt to the side in about a dozen locations. The block is thick on that side (looks like 1/4") more than enough meat to tap the holes I drill for the bolts that'll hold that cover plate.

I will grind/file/sand the side to get it flat so that it'll seal when the plate is bolted back in place. A cork gasket, covering the entire side of the plate w/ a little RTV should keep me oil leak free.

 

[Gene Fiore]

Wow...that is really ambitious!!! Hope it all works out.

 

[gb500]

very interesting - keep the pics comig,

which lifters sets are these ?

 

[rbohm]

8) that is about what i anticipated you would have to do to install roller lifters in the six. nice to see that it can actually happen though.

 

[170-3tree]

And I'm over here thinking of buying a tubing bender and notcher to start learning. Dang I guess it's a good thing I'm single at this point. :rolflmao:

 

[CNC-Dude]

When is your cam supposed to arrive?

 

[xctasy]

very interesting - keep the pics comig,

which lifters sets are these ?

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/836-1/10002/-1

with the 460 link bar

http://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/249/836-16/10002/-1


Its easy to get mixed up between Jason Stoodley's alter egos...first 650 4-bbl, then 345 hp EFI, now Barra twin Cam 4 point Oh.

CYCO6, TF_250 / cyco_250 is on three very good, interactive Aussie forums. Waht he uses are the same Competition Cams adjustable link bar set TF_250 / cyco_250 used on his Tigue Cams http://www.tighecams.com.au/different.htm 256@50 584 lift exh. 265@50 607 lift 107split cammed yellow Cortina Six. But the engines old hat... now he's into a twin cammer

Back in 2012 when I decided to go roller cam in my Mustang, Jason said, and I quote

When using comp cams lifters you can use 351c or 460 as they are the same lifter but you need the 460 tie bar. So if buying new 460 would be the go

(the)351c is not wide enough and 460 is too wide, the comp cams lifters are the only ones that have the removable tie bar and to do that they have a longer slot so they can go in and be used in the 250, You could try them but when the are riveted they would have to be cut and re welded to fit

For Sale http://www.performanceforums.com/forums ... -250-Xflow


http://www.xfalcon.com/forums/index.php ... d-cortina/
http://www.fordaustraliaforums.com/foru ... y&p=369716
http://www.xfalcon.com/forums/index.php ... s-feature/
http://www.ozfalcon.com.au/index.php?/t ... zzle-cont/


It Is So.

Thataboy, Mad Mike creates a Side Plate Six.

Go man, Go!

:mrgreen: :wow: :NZ: :argie: :checks: :shockin:

 

[xctasy]

:smash: :wrench: arty:

I ran out of smilies capacity, a limit of 10 per post, so they were continued here.

 

[mike1157]

So, given my newly created "cave" in the side of the block,...thoughts turned to whether or not I'll lose anything integrity-wise. It is substantially thick wall stuff there, and I can only imagine that there'd be some loss.
This is the finish plan:

The top plate that is currently glued to the top side of the block is obviously un-removable. I have already drilled and tapped six 1/4-28 holes into each of the water risers as anchor points for that plate. The removable plate that allows access to the lifter galley would also be .250 wall (I'm thinking about 2.5" wide, and will span the length of the block under that plate)

I'd add another set of holes to the top plate and have (2) 1/4-28 bolts per water riser. ( those will become studs, sticking out of the thop plate>) The lower plate would have its perimeter drilled and the block tapped to have however many additional anchor points as necessary to insure a good clamp so it will not leak. If I suffered any integrity loss before,...I can't imagine there'd be any after I make my "bridgeplate" to go back on.

What isn't depicted are the many bolt holes that'll go through the bottom plate. (I just was lazy I guess) Not only will it add structure to the side, but I think it'll add cool factor as well.

Not that a roller cammed, turbo charged, Aussie Xflow headed, MPFI'd and crank triggered 250 wouldn't be cool enough..

 

[xrwagon]

its going to be a monster

 

[mike1157]

When is your cam supposed to arrive?

Just got my email from Dean Tigue. Said the cam was in process, and should be ready to ship out next week.

 

[xctasy]

I use a top plate and araldite to fashion a log head adaptor to a non cross flow head on a cross flow block.

I'd suggest you just make a Leigh and Ian Walker 'rotorteck/ plate from OzRodders like was done fitting an Alloy head X-flow to a GMH 3100cc 186 L6 here. There were also 3300 cc 202 versions they have done. The seven capacity Red motor Holden 130/138/149/161/173/186/202/2250/2650/2850/3300 and two capacity Blue 2850/3300 and One capacity Black motor XT6 3300 are all side plate engines. You don't have to use alloy, you could use copper or steel plate.

If your using EDIS, you won't need to clearance the alloy sideplate for the stock Duraspark.



http://www.ozrodders.com/forum/viewtopi ... 86&start=0

and here http://oldholden.com/node/25500

and here http://oldholden.com/node/97155


Some of the deeper SVO Windsor/Cleveland race block style screw in welch plugs would allow full access to the link bars, while keeping the plate a standard fixture. They can hold a plate in shear, or just act as an access point. On my cut-off log head adaptors, I use smaller versions of these 1.25" plugs in shear to hold the 1/8" plate which holds my intake manifold and L28 exhast header

See http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/47700 ... plugs.html

Lastly, since EDIS and the x-flow intake clear the whole drivers side in a Fox body and x-flow combination, a very robust steel side plate could be CNC machined, and be fully linked by bolt flitching entirely to the side of the 9.649 deep block. It would be like the cast in place the block buttress on the latest deep skirt Ecodiesel GM four cylinder engines, only made of steel or alloy. I've heard of this being done on some British 3 liter Essex 60 degree V6 experimental engines when they were uprated to 12:1 compression and 330 thou overbored for Chevy 4" pistons.


The buttress in cast iron looks like this...



http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/ ... to_04.html

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/ ... to_04.html

There's no limit to what you can do to add strength and access

 

[CNC-Dude]

When is your cam supposed to arrive?

Just got my email from Dean Tigue. Said the cam was in process, and should be ready to ship out next week.

Cool, are they holding true to their original price quote.

 

[mike1157]

When is your cam supposed to arrive?

Just got my email from Dean Tigue. Said the cam was in process, and should be ready to ship out next week.

Cool, are they holding true to their original price quote.

We'll see. He said he have me an invoice by next week.

 

[mike1157]

I use a top plate and araldite to fashion a log head adaptor to a non cross flow head on a cross flow block.

I'd suggest you just make a Leigh and Ian Walker 'rotorteck/ plate from OzRodders like was done fitting an Alloy head X-flow to a GMH 3100cc 186 L6 here. There were also 3300 cc 202 versions they have done. The seven capacity Red motor Holden 130/138/149/161/173/186/202/2250/2650/2850/3300 and two capacity Blue 2850/3300 and One capacity Black motor XT6 3300 are all side plate engines. You don't have to use alloy, you could use copper or steel plate.

If your using EDIS, you won't need to clearance the alloy sideplate for the stock Duraspark.



http://www.ozrodders.com/forum/viewtopi ... 86&start=0

and here http://oldholden.com/node/25500

and here http://oldholden.com/node/97155


Some of the deeper SVO Windsor/Cleveland race block style screw in welch plugs would allow full access to the link bars, while keeping the plate a standard fixture. They can hold a plate in shear, or just act as an access point. On my cut-off log head adaptors, I use smaller versions of these 1.25" plugs in shear to hold the 1/8" plate which holds my intake manifold and L28 exhast header

See http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/47700 ... plugs.html

Lastly, since EDIS and the x-flow intake clear the whole drivers side in a Fox body and x-flow combination, a very robust steel side plate could be CNC machined, and be fully linked by bolt flitching entirely to the side of the 9.649 deep block. It would be like the cast in place the block buttress on the latest deep skirt Ecodiesel GM four cylinder engines, only made of steel or alloy. I've heard of this being done on some British 3 liter Essex 60 degree V6 experimental engines when they were uprated to 12:1 compression and 330 thou overbored for Chevy 4" pistons.


The buttress in cast iron looks like this...



http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/ ... to_04.html

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/ ... to_04.html

There's no limit to what you can do to add strength and access

I am using EDIS. I'm modifying the stock distributor base to drive the oil pump. So, I'm thinking I'll go with my plate as I've designed.

 

[mike1157]

Spent the entire day finishing the side access, and the cover plate to seal it up.

Since Birmingham is another "steel city," getting the proper material to do the job is only a matter of knowing where to go. Some time ago, in anticipation of using it to make a header flange, I picked up a 2' long piece of 7/16" thick angle.
I decided that that was what I'd make the cover plate instead.
Let me tell ya, whatever the original intent of that piece of steel was, using it to make a cover plate proved a challenge. This stuff has to be the hardest steel I've yet tried to cut with standard home shop tools.

A jig saw? No freakin' way. A sawzall w/ a brand new 14 tpi blade? Laughable.
I have a hand held band saw, but the cut I had to make was too wide, and the stock hit the saw, and the cut was wandering all over the place.

Solution? A 39.00 4.5" angle grinder w/ a 1/16" cut off wheel.

I had the piece cut in 5 minutes.

I had already cut all of the access holes a few days ago, so after I got my piece cut, I finished cutting out the nooks, and crannies required to make it fit.

The other thing I did when I cut the access holes was flatten the mating surface. No easy task considering all I had to do that with was that same angle grinder, and a mill file.

The next thing I did was fit that plate, and measure for the gazillion 1/4- 20 holes that I had to drill, and tap around the perimeter of the opening.

I bolted the bottom plate using 1/4 x 3/4 Allen head cap screws. The top plate is glued to the block, so I added a .095 piece of 1-1/4 bar on top of it, and bolted it to the glued plate to bring the top plate level with the bottom, so I could add the gussets I planned for earlier.

Now the problem w/ adding those gussets is that they are sitting directly on top of another plate tat is epoxied to the side of the engine. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to determine that the heat soak that would come off of trying to weld those gussets in place would compromise the bond of the epoxy. So I tacked it in place, unbolted it, and moved it to another piece of 1/2" flat plate that would act as a backer to hopefully keep the cover plate from warping when I welded it.

So a few of you may be thinking that I have solved the problem of being relegated to using a future failure flat tappet camshaft.......and may be considering doing the same.

Better plan on what your gonna do to fit a distributor back in the engine.

I already did that too.

I plan to use EDIS. The distributor in my engine only has to drive the oil pump.

It's not done yet, I cut off the top of the main shaft right below the centrifugal advance mechanism. I left only enough material on top to keep it from falling through the distributor body. I'm gonna look for some sort of threaded sleeve so I can fit it over the nub that remains, and thread some cap on top to finish it off.

I also spent some money today. Bought my 300 harmonic balancer, my f150 flex plate, and my 95 Cobra M/C all from RockAuto. I placed a " make offer" bid on a Sanden 508 Chinese A/C compressor, and bought 6 60 lb hr injectors from EBay.

Good day,......got a bunch of stuff done, and a bunch of cool junk on the way.

 

[CNC-Dude]

What are you gong to do about your distributor gear?

 

[xrwagon]

This going to be epic

 

[mike1157]

What are you gong to do about your distributor gear?

I'm hoping that there is a bronze one out there, I haven't looked.

 

[xrwagon]

you need a crossflow gear don’t you? Crow Cams in Aus maybe