She really wants to start.........

strat1960s

strat1960s

Well-known member
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I went out to try to start my motor today. This was the most effort I have put into trying to start the motor. Since I have put it back together, I haven't had much time to tinker with her. I have plans to take a few days off from work to really get into it.
Any how, this is what she was doing:
When turning over, the motor will try to fire when I slightly press on the gas pedal. When I think it's going to fire, I back off the gas and the motor sputters a little and dies. I have a new dizzy with the Ignitor II and the flame thrower coil. From the sounds of it, the dizzy and coil are working proerly. I haven't made any adjustments to the carb as far as air/fuel screws or idle screw. It is as it was when I took the carb out of the box. Should I richen the air/fuel mixture? Where should I try to set the timing? Should I open the choke?
I want to get the motor to the point where it will run on it's own. Once I get to that point, I will adjust the idle screw to 2000 to 2500 RPM in order to break in the cam.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Ted
 
Ted we need more information... it could be a bunch of different things.

What have you done to set the timing? Did you set it static? Are you on the number one cyl TDC on the compression stroke? could you be 180degrees out.. is it backfiring at all in the carb? Do you have enough initial advance?

Verify 12v to the coil on the ignition setup.
Verify spark?
Verify fuel to the carb?

What kind of carb? What kind of rebuild?

Are all of the vacume ports connected? or closed off?
Are all of the plug wires in the correct firing order?

Give it about half the choke to start... or try it in different degrees from closed. It might be too much all the way closed.
These are the things I had on my checklist and I still had some things not right... check the basics over again very carefully.
 
Folks, I figured I was leaving some stuff out, but I was hoping you all would ask the questions that I had not thought of yet.

1. As for the timing, I found TDC #1 and droped the dizzy in.
I will double check in the AM to see if it is lined up properly, but I have
a feeling it is trying to fire.

2. I have one of those clear fuel filters, I can see the fuel going in.
Now that I am thinking about it, when I drained the old fuel out of the
tank, I did not drain the fuel lines. Could a little bit of stale fuel cause
it not to fire up? I do get this funky smell in the garage after I have
tried to fire the motor up. I will try to pump some fuel through the
lines to bleed the old stuff out.

3. I am running a new Weber 38 DGAS.

4. I have connected the vac lines to the dizzy and the trans vac
modulator. I can plug them up in the AM.

5. The Weber has an electric choke. Right now, it is fully closed.

I will double check things in the AM and let you all know what I come up with. I will need to buy a multimeter in the AM to tell you if I have 12 V through out the system, besides, I was looking for an excuse to buy one. LOL.
Thank you for your help.

Ted
 
I got up at 4:30 this AM and went out to the garage to look the car over.

I capped off the two vacuum ports, one on the carb and the other on the intake manifold.

I turned the motor over to TDC #1 and popped the dizzy cap. The rotor was pointing right at #1.

I checked to see if I have voltage at the coil (the parts store doesn't open till 10 AM for me to buy my multimeter, but I will get one today). My test light lit up as bright as it did when I touched it to the battery.

I looked at my plugs. They looked ok, with only a thin coating of oil (waiting for my rings to seat).

The only thing I haven't done yet is drain out some fuel through the fuel line. I am starting to think my problem may be due to some stale fuel. If I remember right, stale fuel gives off a funky smell when burnt. I will pick up a fuel can and run the hose from the pump into the fuel can. I will crank the motor over for a few moments to see if I clean the lines out.
Provided I don't burn my house down, is there a way for me to drain the carb without removing it from the intake?

Because the motor is trying to fire up, I will go with with belief that it is getting spark.

That is where I am at for now. It's almost 9 AM and I am going to clean up to go to the parts store.
:wink:
 
maybe double check firing order, plug wires and advance timing?
 
Folks,

Well, I can't seem to get past my garage. Each time I walk by, I go on in and try to crank the motor over. I haven't made it to the parts store yet. :wink:

Ok, here is what I have at this point.

I got the motor to turn over and fire....as long as the gas pedal was 3/4 or more to the floor. It ran very rough, but for about 10 seconds, it was running. Then I let off the gas and it died. No back firing at the carb or in the exhaust.

Here are my thoughts:
1. The cylinders are getting spark.
2. With all the cranking I have done, I should have burnt though any
contaminated/stale fuel left in the fuel lines.
3. Like I said before, I havent made any adjustments to the air/fuel
mixture screws. I think the mixture may be too lean. I say that
because I really have to get on the pedal to get the motor to fire.
I will try to richen the mixture up in 1/2 turn increments.

I will try to get to the parts store sometime today to pick up that multimeter, I promise. :D

If anyone can think of something that I am missing, please toss your two cents out there and I'll give it a try.

Ted
 
Check your distributor again. I had the same problem when I put my engine back in. It wouldn't always backfire, but we were definately 180 out.
 
thanks for your help guys. I discovered that I had forgotten to order a new air/fuel mixture screw since one of mine had been bent during shipping. I am going to try a few local shops. I'll keep you posted.

Ted :wink:
 
On my car, I could keep it running if I had it almost floored. I could be wrong though, it wouldn't be the first time.
 
There are two TDC's: one on compression and one on exhaust. Just lining up the mark doesn't ensure you have the right one.

If it is 180 out, it will try to fire. It will light whatever fuel/air is in the cylinder and you will get backfires, possibly a chug or two, but it will not run.

Disconnect the coil wire, pull the number one plug, and just hold your thumb over the hole while cranking. When you get a whoosh of air, stop. You are now near TDC on the compression stroke and this is the TDC that your rotor should be pointing to.
 
I agree with MustangSix! I had a 170 that I rebuilt in a 62 Comet that was the same way when I was tring to start it up the first time. It was 180 out, and it would kind of run (if you call it that) barely. Spun the dist 180 and then it would start good. Might try it, don't take but 5 minutes to do it!

Just my humble opinion!

Larry
Troy, MO 8)
 
By swapping the dizzy around it will either fire up easily, or be worse. And it will be obvious...

Then once you get it running...

By all means do not let that thing Idle!!


You said it fired and ran but was rough... at what RPM was it at when you were 3/4 on the pedal?

You need to have a hand in the engine bay, get that rpm up to 2000 and DO NOT LET IT DROP BELOW... run it in for 20 minutes...

it will start out rough, make a crap of noise, but it should smooth out... now if it will not run at that speed you are off on the timing, sounds like it may just be a tad retarded... advance it a degree or two, then fire it up and keep it there...

after you run it in, it will change in pitch, and speed, and feel, then you can dial it in... you only need to get it running and keep it up high for the 20 minutes... after that you can tweak forever!
 
Jimbo,

I will spin the dizz 180 and see what happens. When it was sputtering, it wasn't even hitting 500 RPM. I still think the air fuel ratio needs tweaking. I will try to pick up a new screw in the AM.
Ted
 
Ok folks, am I missing something?

When I pulled the dizzy out and tried to rotate it 180 degrees, the vacuum advance unit keeps hitting the side of the block. I look at all my pictures of dizzys and look for reference points. I am using the vacuum advance as my reference. In every single picture the vacuum advance is pointing towards the rear of the motor or the fire wall. Then I looked for a second reference point. I used the position of the rotor when the motor is at TDC #1. In all the pictures I could find, the rotor is pointed towards the driver's side shock tower. As far as I can tell, I am meeting all the reference points dead on. So, in oreder to correct my dizzy situation, should I rotate the rotor by 180 degrees?

Ted
 
They meant to pull the dizzy, rotate the crank 180 and the put the dizzy back in.
 
:? All this cranking - what about those lifters and lobes? Has all the lube got wiped off by now? Put $200 of cam and lifters at risk for a $15 head gasket?

Seriously, why people don't leave the motor at #1 TDC compression when assembling? Once the cam's in, there's no real need to move it far. Plus when they do this, it's a good time to mark true TDC on the balancer.

I have a rebuilt dual advance points dizzy (stock curve) that can be relied on for startup. A points unit is good here because you can pull that trick of twisting it back or forward a little, to pop a spark - then you know 100% it works.

Similarly, a known runner carb is a good prospect, or prove your own on another motor that's up and going. That way, everything will fall into place perfectly. We all get some sort of "startup fever"; just trying to put a little perspective on the tracks already covered.

Adam.
 
I think you may be getting confused. Forget the 180 degree reference. You already have the distributor body oriented correctly, but the rotor may not be facing #1 on TDC compression stroke. If so, to correct it, you will have to pull the distributor.

Rotate the engine as I said until you have # 1 on TDC compression stroke, set the timing pointer to your preferred timing mark (6-10 degrees to start with), then with the distributor body in the correct orientation, insert it into the block so that the ROTOR is facing #1.

On a little six, generally that means the vacuum advance is pointing to the rear and the rotor is pointed to the left fender when #1 is on compression stroke.
 
I am sure a lot of this has been mentioned to you, but here is a list of possible problems:

Timing
vaccum advance
bad points or condensor
trash in the carb
Try priming the carb first (pouring a cap full of gas straight down into the
carb. first
bad fuel pump
firing order of the spark plugs (make sure the distributer cap in on the right way - it will go on both ways, but only works one) and that all of the wires correspond correctly
make sure your throttle cable and return spring are adjusted correctly.

Hope some of this helps, GOOD LUCK - I have had starting problems myself a while ago and there is NOTHING more frustrating!
 
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