Spark plugs / fouling

[fordconvert]

Car started to be hard starting and rougher than usual idle. Had a look at the cap and rotor and found that they could stand to be replaced. Figured I would do the plugs as well. Not sure how many miles are on the stuff but its all 2 years old and its a semi daily driver during the summers so there are not 10's of thousands. Head was also rebuil/) t at the same time. Bottom looked good so I did not do anything with it. #1 was slightly white, 2 tanish white, 3 slight oil, 4 bordering on nasty oil, 5 sort of between 3 and 5, and 6 was pretty much solid white crust on one side and oil like crust on the other. They are autolite 46's gapped at 45 with a ds2 hei and blaster coil. Compression is about 8.3. 1100 carb. Since the head was rebuilt I dont think its valve guides. Compression was good 2 years ago so i dont think its compression rings. It runs good and strong like it always has its just got a rough idle which it has always had to a degree. I got to looking at spark plugs. Looking at Napa's site they pretty much call for a autolite 46 on all the 200's its just the gap that changes. Oddly in a champion plug the earlier ones call for a 22 and the later ones call for an 11. I am assuming a 22 is hotter (much hotter?) than an 11? So far I have not found any info that makes sense explaining the heat ranges between the brands.

Thoughts?

 

[JackFish]

If the rings and the guides are OK then maybe oil is coming in through the intake, perhaps the PCV?

 

[fordconvert]

New premium cap and rotor and a set of champion 22 plugs and its starting and idling nice again. Since I was in the area anyway I finally decided to restab the dizzy to get the wires to fit a little better. I dont remember what my compression numbers were before but there is only one that is slightly out of line and it was one with a normal looking plug so I will just have to keep an eye on things and see what happens.

 

[ponyrider200]

What you are describing is exactly what happened to me right down to the #6 plug being ashy on one side and oil sludgy on the other. I had a broken ear on my '66 200 ci Mustang head, so I got amother head and had it rebuilt. About 300 miles after I put it back together I started getting rough running and harder starting. When i pulled the plugs that is the condition I found. It took me awhile, but I finally figured out that when I replaced the hose that goes from the PCV valve to the carb base, I had used a piece of 3/8 fuel line. It was all I had in the garage that Sunday afternoon, and I wanted to get the engine running that day. The problem was I never replaced that hose. What was happening was vacuum was collapsing the hose, and the PCV was not able to vent the engine, and the fumes were being forced back into the cylinders, with cylinders 4,5 and 6 being the nastiest. Anyway, I got a piece of emission hose, and pulled the fuel, and that solved the problem.

Let me know how you make out.

Lou

 

[fordconvert]

Interesting. I have always used fuel line for PCV's and never seen that problem but it should be easy enough to check. What do you use instead of fuel line?

 

[HARVEY LIGHT]

You go to the Schucks/checker/kragen/autozone/oreiley/napa whatever is in the area and get emission hose. Different construction than fuel line. Also could use fuel injection line since it is for 60 psi as opposed to 7 psi for fuel line(doesn't collapse). They should know what it is. (I know some of those guys are clueless, but after a year working in one of those places, I've learned a lot more about cars than you'd think possible).

 

[ponyrider200]

Hey Harvey,
This website is where I come to learn things from people who know what I don't. We all share and we all benefit.

Hey ford convert let us know how it goes.

Lou

 

[rambler1959]

This sounds to be exactly what i've been experiencing with the spark plugs on the 200 in my 64 econoline. The spacer between the carb and intake has a hose coming off of it that is just plugged at the end with a bolt. I remember my brother's 289 having a hose going over to the valve cover hooking up to a pvc valve in it. Should this engine be set up the same?

thanks

-David

 

[ponyrider200]

Rambler1959, the emission hose from the PCV valve should connect to the port on the carb spacer. The port should face the firewall. If you removed the bolt from it, and did nothing else, the loss of vacuum would cause the engine to stall.
Question, where does your hose from the PCV connect to now? It could be the PO routed the hose to a different port,

 

[rambler1959]

Rambler1959, the emission hose from the PCV valve should connect to the port on the carb spacer. The port should face the firewall. If you removed the bolt from it, and did nothing else, the loss of vacuum would cause the engine to stall.
Question, where does your hose from the PCV connect to now? It could be the PO routed the hose to a different port,

there isn't a pvc valve. not anywhere that i can see at least. the previous owner replaced the stock valve cover with a finned aluminum one and installed two breathers.

also the port on the carb spacer points to the front passenger side of the engine. i looked up other pictures of the 200 in mustangs and falcons and they look to be set up the same. the port is connected to a hose that goes to the top back of the valve cover and looks to be hooked up to a pvc valve in the valve cover. would setting my engine up this same way solve the plugs from fowling up or are the breathers doing what the pvc should be? the engine idles mostly smooth but not as smooth as i feel and inline should. there is slight roughness at times at idle.

 

[ponyrider200]

Before there was PCV valves, the combustion fumes were just vented out into the air, and that's the way your engine is set up. You don't have to change anything. The reason they went to PCV valves was to reduce air pollution by having the fumes sent back into the engine to be burnt with the fuel. YOu could do this too if you wanted. All you need to do is get a valve cover you can put a PCV valve into, and then run emissions hose from it to the base plate on the carb. Your engine should still run the same, you will just generate less air pollution that way.
A PO probably put a carb base plate from a later model onto your engine.
I misread your eamail, and I thought you wrote that you had a 289. The v8 base plate faces the fire wall. the I6 base plate faces the passenger fender.
Hope that answers all your questions.

 

[rambler1959]

yes it does thank you. i was hoping that maybe using the pvc valve and reburning the gasses would keep the plugs from fouling but sounds like it maybe caused from worn valve guides like i suspected.

one other quick question, is there any powerloss from using the pvc? might be worth doing if it creates less pollution and all.

 

[wallaka]

No power loss from a PCV system at all. If you're serious about reducing emissions, a PCV and a Random Technology or Magnaflow catalytic converter will clean it right up without affecting performance. Modern cats introduce less backpressure than mufflers do.

 

[fordconvert]

A pcv valve is a vacuum leak (air that does not go through the carb therefore does not pick up fuel). Everything started out as a matched system. If it came from the factory with a pcv the carb was tuned to figure in that extra air. Adding one to a system that is perfectly tuned without one will make it go leaner. Removing one from a perfect system will make it go richer. How rich or lean and will you notice depends on the system.

I have engines without pcv and they are messy inside and out. The engines with pcv seem to stay cleaner inside plus you dont get that burning oil smell in the car all the time.

I may have time to experiment with the possible hose issue tomorrow. It will be nice if that is the fix. So far have not found a parts store that has the line except for some custom stuff for fairly recent cars. I was going to try my hydraulic guy to see if he has anything that small. If he does not I was going to go pay the big bucks for some marine fuel line, that stuff is got about 3x the wall thickness of standard fuel line.