Stroker or diff Pistons and Rods

[xrwagon]

I was reading a engine combo that said it was using 302 rods, is this correct and also can the 200 be bored and stroked and is this cost effective for power increase. Also can someone say why Ford says it uses forged H beam rods in a 200?

 

[xctasy]

I was reading a engine combo that said it was using 302 rods, is this correct and also can the 200 be bored and stroked and is this cost effective for power increase. Also can someone say why Ford says it uses forged H beam rods in a 200?

No, its not cost effective to stroke a low deck 200 unless your a machinist and you can zero cost the labour. The Aussie 200, in both low and tall deck forms made from 1964 to 1992, always had forged H section con rods, but a number of US 200 and 250 engines had the conrods downageaded to cast iron from 1975 onwards. Its important to note that when the wide block XR engine came out in the XR, the Aussie engines differed to the 1965 on US Aussie engines, by 1968, the Aussie engines had largee valve guides, different blocks, crank, rods, heads and by 1976, nothing was in common. So the info on FordSix Performance is generally US specific.

When it comes to pistons, and rods, there is any number of options, with a lot of new options in the 3.68 to 3.76" piston size these days. So its certainly possible to do a stroked 200, but there are now many more ways to do it with over the counter parts


When stroking, its important to note even the 221 has space limitations, and that block is 0.622" taller. I've talked at length about the four or five ways you can do a 215 to 220 stroker short deck 200, but since there are still the odd 221 and XW and Transit Van 3.6 engines around in Australia if you look, the cost of doing a stroker to a short deck 200 is the limiting factor.

The early Aussie 200's were low deck 7.803" deck register engines without the 9.469" tall deck design the US 250, and 9.380" 1971 XY and XA onwards 200/3.3s had. The later Aussie 3.3 is the worlds easiest engine to stroke, just add 6.27" 3.3 rods, the low dish piston and the 250 crank, and whammo, 25% more capacity.

With the US style short deck, you save 85 pounds over the Aussie tall deck iron non cross flow 200 and 250's, but you don't have the block width or room from the crankshaft to cam. The tall deck engines whole sump is wider, the cam is over 0.4" further away. The sallow deck engines can take an offset ground crank with smaller rod journals, and from 1900 Holden or XT5/XT6/Starfire/Toyota IX, or Toyota 3T or 1600 Kent Crossflow Ford or aftermarket VW Audi con rods to bring the crank out to close to the same stroke as the Aussie 1968 XT to 1970 XW 221 "3.6 litre engines. The 221 versions, not the smaller 188, had a 3.46" crank in the block. With the 250 camshaft position, and the wider 250 style 188/221 block combined with a 8.425" meduim deck block. Those were listed as 3.1 or 3.6 Liter on the front guards of Falcon, Falcon 500 and 600 sedans, wagons and utes, and the 1968 to 1975 Ford Transit vans had them as an option for many years. The Argentinans also used the same block from 1968 to 1995 on there 188 and 221 engines, so they were a world wide solution. The US market had a raft of 221 and 260 V8 Windsors, 240 Big Six and 250 small six engines in the 60's, so the medium deck 188/221 engines were never got released there, making the Aussie Falcon 68 XT/69-70 XW and all Argie Falcon and Fairlane 188/221 engines unique. Some of the base modle Aussie Fairlanes got it, and the Argentine 1968 to 1983 Fairlane had the 221 as a base engine option too.

The age old Aussie solution to making six cylinder strokers to short deck sixes not designed for long stroke cranks was to use the block flitching pioneered by one particular long stroke version of the Merv Waggot Holden Twin cam engine in 1958 or thereabouts. They just added a steel plate which was shorter than the ring lands, and you could then put your stroker crank and longer rods in. This method can be used to stroke a 200 very successfully.

See the following article from justman234 , with a 221 with an 3.91 stroke 4.0 EF crank, trial fitted with EF pistons and 221 rods. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69393

http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/justm ... f.jpg.html

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h34 ... bb97b2.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h34 ... 43a359.jpg


http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h34 ... 67de87.jpg

 

[xrwagon]

So my 200 may not share to much with any of the go fast gear i have been looking at? How do i identify my engine, car is a 1967, especially camshaft, this is one area i wanted to change.

 

[xctasy]

The Classic Inlines website, and the advice from this forum, is the best information you'll get anywhere at any price.

The 1967 200 XR six is what I have perpare as an engine for my 1981 Mustang GL Hatchback, its only got an Aussie specfic block flange, carb and ignition and head casting, but its basically a splendid candiate for a nice wilder camshaft and a change of carburation. Mine is 40 thou over with Duralite pistons and small chamber head, and a 4-bbl six port intake manifold I designed to go with the log head. There isn't much that won't work brilliantly on this little six. You can get up to 180 hp just using the log head, and you can go to 205 hp with some extra head porting. it just needs the right 264 hydraulic or 274 degree solid Clay Smith cam. One guy here has just a 500 cfm Holley 2-bbl and runs low 13's in his round body Falcon. Triple carb conversions get into the 140 rear wheel hp (180 plus flywheel hp) area frequently with just remoked heads and cams and fltop pistons. One other guy on Cardomain shoved a 2-bbl 500 cfm Holley and nitrous on his 63 and did 13.6 second quarters. There isn't much you can't do with it.

The XR wagon is one of the lightest Falcons around, despite its 116 inch wheelbase. The best options are a T5 gearbox and a nice set of 3.23:1 or 3.5 gears which it may have already, and something to the breathing to bring out the best out of that tough little engine. If you dinkum about a 2V and triple SU's, you'll get all the power you need.

If its anything like mine, yours has a red block with F stamped by flat area above the draft tube, 22H on the block above the dipstick, ARC6DE 6015D on the block, and my engine number is G2272, and it came with a grey colo'u'red C1 cylinder head with blue rocker cover.

 

[xrwagon]

Thanks mate, appreciate the time and effort you put into your responses, i am getting a 2v 250 head, i was looking at a Schneider cam but he told me mine will have to be reground, the cam i was looking at is this one

Part Number: 13704
Grind Number: 142F
Intake Duration (gross): 284
Exhaust Duration (gross): 284
Intake Duration (.050”): 240
Exhaust Duration (.050”): 240
Intake Valve Lift*: .510"
Exhaust Valve Lift*: .510"
Lobe Separation: 110
Intake Valve Lash: .016"
Exhaust Valve Lash: .016"
RPM Range:
2500-6500
*Based on 1.5 Rocker Arm Ratio

i have a 2500 stall, 26 spline, the car is 3.5 geared and i have 2 sets of wheels, my street rears are 15x8 Welds with 255/60/15, my other wheels are the original stockers powdercoated, i can buy a set of 26” slicks if needed, for now i am running the eighth so i would be trying to optimise the eight trap speed, i do drive the 1 hour to the track though, i have lightened the car eg, taken out aircon, fitted some lighter components like brakes etc, it doesnt need a 9” and has original rear i was going to upgrade to 28 spline lsd 4 pinion centre, lastly a built C4, i was looking at aftermarket carbs like blueprinted 2 barrel 500 holleys, like the restrictor type carbs, there are a few guys like Holley, AED and Dillman, mainly race track carbs, not sure if this is a good carb for anything less than flat out. The cam above is a solid and maybe a tad bigger than i think, unsure why he said he would need mine to grind, rather buy the outright cast one.

 

[xctasy]

Your best bet is copying Mustang Geezers set up, and ditching the idea of SU's. A 4-bbl 600 cfm carb will do all you require. He runs a Schneider cam, and a C4, but a C4 creates real problems in that has no overdrive, and to perform in a proper Fordly manner, it will need the same demon diff gearing he uses. Another example is Crosley. Each have standout drag racing Ford I6's but they aren't dual purpose machines anymore, they are becoming specialist drag cars. In your case, at 100 km/h or 62 mph, you are doing 2763 rpm with 255/60 15's and 2813 rpm with 26" slicks, and if you'd like the car to be all it can, you'll need to do 100 mph trap speeds, and that means with that gearing you'd be doing less than 4500 rpm through the traps. So I'd recomend a set of Nissan Pintara rear drive 4.11 gears be swapped in. On the highway, you'd still be looking at 3300 rpm, so you need to have a little think about if you can cope with those revs on the highway.

I'd press for an Explorer 4.0 5 speed auto, which uses an early Falcon size 138 teeth flexplate and it just needs an adaptor to fit our Aussie wide bell I6's. My Mustang uses this size flexplate, they are easy to get and you get a 0.7:1 top, which cuts the revs from 3300 to 2300 rpm.

As a pure drag car, just follow the two guys above. With 2900 pounds and 205 to about 220 hp at the flywheel, I can't see any problem getting 14.7s for the 1/4 mile,and whatever that is for an 8th mile. It's as easy as falling off a log. Just make sure you get good rod bolts, good ACL pistons and if you want to go for 302 or 289 rods, you'd be advised to have someone get some Ross blanks and machine them to suit a 1.15" (5.09" long 302 rod) or 1.085" (5.155 "long 289/Boss 302 rod) pin to piston top height. Its pretty close to the rod ratio an XU1 GTR 202 ran, and will be worth 10 at 5000 rpm.

 

[xrwagon]

thanks mate, yeah its a trade off, if i can get a 10 or a 9 on the eighth i will be happy, if i can do that without it revving its tits off at the traps i will be happier, i’d like to go to Willowbank and do a mid 14, for that my normal 3.5 gears might be ok, the 5 spd auto sounds like a great idea,

 

[xrwagon]

i noticed today when i was degreasing the engine bay that when i drove it without the air cleaner, it was 10 k’s faster in second gear, its a closed in base, lid etc, no snorkel or anything on it, talk about restrictive. Mate has a 35 Holley i can get cheap so may get an adaptor and rebuild this carb provided its ok in the shaft. I will be keeping a keen eye out for six cylinder fords at the six banger nats and do a report of whats there and who runs what.

 

[wsa111]

Another option is get Crower rods using the Honda 1.88" rod journal. That will give you more rod to camshaft clearance. Since it is a custom rod you can choose piston pin diameter & rod length depending your piston choice.
Cost effective, not really, but that is an option.
I,m sure you could get 221 cubic inches at least using the above combination.