Sudden "Failure" of '57 223

[Anonymous]

Here's the story:

The 223 in my 57 Custom 300 was rebuilt about 18 months ago. It has run beautifully ever since and I've logged about 8k miles on it. I was making my annual 200 mile drive to Austin for the Lonestar Roundup last weekend and all was well. I exited the freeway to get some gas. As I slowed down, I started running EXTREMELY rough and eventually shut down and coasted to the gas pump. Fired her back up and, again, a ridiculiously rough idle and I noticed gas practically pouring out of the carb right when I would shut the engine down. We assumed it was a carb issue and limped the last 10 miles into Austin. At full speed, it ran a little better, but felt under powered.

The next morning, I rebuilt the carb at the show and had high expectations. Fired her up and it was the same thing. Westarted checking for other issues and founf cylinders 1 & 3 were "dead". The plugs are sparking, but nothing in terms of movement. Changed the plugs and still nothing. Now, I changed the plugs right before the trip. They were a year old and barely even black. The new plugs (with gaps set) were BLACK in just over 200 miles. Maybe a coincidence.

Running out of time (and money), I was forced to limp back home in thesame way I got there. Not ideal, but I didn't have a way to tow her home and HAD to be at work on Monday.

I spent a little more time today troubleshooting and can't find much to go on. I installed a new gas tank a year ago and have a clear inline filter. The fuel is totally clean. I did notice the last time I fired her up that the fuel filter (installed after the pump) was completely empty. Is my fuel pump bad? Would that cause cylinders 1 & 3 to shut down?


My thoughts are to (in this order):

1. Check compression (I'll have to buy a tester)
2. Change fuel pump
3. Change cap, rotor, plugs, condensor, points, plug wires
4. Replace carb

Am I missing something? Any suggestions on what to check first and am I on the right track?

I've been debating the installation of a modern 302 and this setback isn't helping out in the debate.

HELP!!!

 

[addo]

Valve issue. To go suddenly, you've possibly either jumped teeth on the cam chain (if it has one) or more likely, got a couple of bent or stuck valves.

A compression test will be #1 check, then pull the valve cover if low compression shows. You seem to have spark and fuel so no worries about carb or dizzy for now.

Regards, Adam.

 

[Daves55Courier]

You mentioned a rebuild while back ?
I did a rebuild on a 223 that blew the head gasket in a few weeks and found that the threaded holes for the headbolts between cylinders 2 and 3 on my block were very weak and partially stripped out.
I had to drill out the threads on the bad holes and tap them with larger threads, buy a set of 5 threaded bushings and a special tool to install them and install a new head gasket. Apparently the holes became torqued out after heat was introduced by running the engine.
Shes fine now. purrs like a kitten at 80mph.

Not sayin thats your problem, but does kinda sound like a blown head gasket. Check compression in those cylnders. Doubtful that it would be the valves so soon after a rebuild.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies. I'll check the compression first and then go from there. I apologize in advance for this next stupid question(s)...

1. If the compression test moves me toward chacking the head gasket, how do I know for sure if the gasket is blown? I don't appear to be leaking or burning any oil. As a matter of fact, I've never had to add as much as a drop of oil betwen oil changes ever since the engine was rebuilt.

2. As I mentioned in the original description, I noticed that the clear inline fuel filter is completely empty after I shot the engine off. Could this be a bad (or going bad) fuel pump?

3. I also have a fair amount of oil around and on the fuel pump. Not enough to have to add oil between changes, but it is there. Could this also point to a fuel pump issue?

Thanks again for the help. I am so glad I stumbled onto this forum. There's not a lot of resources out there on the 223! I'm not a super-skilled tech, but I'm willing to try anything becuase that's the only way to learn.

 

[Daves55Courier]

About the fuel filter, it seems that after the engine is shut off and the pressure dies down, some gas will drain back. My filter is usually about half full in the morning before starting up.
Check for gas leaks in the line and at the fuel pump outlet fitting with the engine running using your finger to feel if there is anything wet along there. There must be no leaks in the assembly

If a pump goes bad, they can push gas into the crankcase instead of into the fuel line, but then you wouldnt be getting gas to your carb. As for the oil leak, you need to remove the pump and squirt some blue RTV gasket sealer on the back of that old gasket and re-install it. Make real certain your bolts are not to long. The camshaft is directly behind that pump. get shorter bolts or add washers on the bolts as needed and tighten to specified torque. It helps to crank the engine a little to move the cam out of the way for the pump actuator when installing.

Head gasket. Might not notice any oil loss if the gasket is blown, but you might easily notice a huge cloud of white smoke pouring out the back when you are running along and let off the gas. That white cloud is a mixture of steam from anti-freeze leaking into the hot cylinder and a little oil. But if your compression is low on those cylinders, I'd pull the head to check the top of the pistons and the head gasket unless you can see that you have some broken valve springs when you remove the rocker arm cover. And then you know you have to pull the head

 

[Anonymous]

I did a little testing today and found out some bad news:

1. Compression Test was 0,90,120,120,120,120

2. Pulled the rocker cover and the first valve was not moving at all. Tapped it a tiny bit with a rubber mallet and it seemed as free as the others.

3. Pulled the oil dipstick and reluctantly took a look at the oil. There's little slivers of metal in the oil.

I think I'm pretty well screwed. I've spent a fortune on this engine in the last two years and have very little to show for it right now. I don't know what to do...

 

[277 I6]

the cam maybe went flat if the push rod is in place valve not moveing the cam is the first thing I would check

 

[Daves55Courier]

Yeah, my 223 was all machined by a racing engine builder. I think the bill was $3300. Thats way more than I spent on my Y-block. After that, It sat in the garage for another 2 yrs with head gasket problems, then the ongoing Holley 1904 carburator dilemma which haunted it for months. And then I finally get it all straightened out, and top speed is about 80mph wide open. Damn nice ride though if I can keep the heat down and it is something that could potentially last the rest of my life. And I have no doubt it will. The 55 Victoria sedan was my first car and I am still driving it today, so the Courier should outlast it realistically.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah. I'm very frustrated right now, but I'll probably try to get it going again before I give up and put a 302 with EFI in there. Nice car, by the way. Here's my baby...

 

[Daves55Courier]

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33445

I think you might be interested in the above topic in Gasoline alley. I think it could be directly related to your troubles.
Here's another clue. the valve lash adjustment at .019 (hot) may seem a little loose goin down the road, but I found it to be the best setting. If you are even a little tighter than .019 you can hear a squeak at high rpm. That sound is metal to metal cam lobe against bottom of lifter, and when you are slowing down off a hiway ramp, she'll backfire a lot.
Best way I found to adjust the valves is with engine running, feeler guage .019 turn your wrench and listen to the sound of the engine. When its perfect it will sound like click-click-click. If its too tight on your feeler guage it sounds like pfft-pffft-pffft. Okay. Get some aluminum foil and scrunch it around your intake and exhaust to catch the oil flying while you are adjusting. Dishwashing liquid is excellent for cleaning up the remaining oil splatter when your done.

 

[Anonymous]

A quick question about the cam...

It certainly looks like that's part of the problem since I have the little metal bits in the oil. I've basically "learned as I've gone" on this old 223, from rebuilding the carb (more than once, of course!) to all maintenance work, valve adjustments and all the items that any car needs such as brakes.

I haven't done an engine rebuild (yet) and I've never replaced a cam. I got a good quote from a shop to rebuild the head. How much of a chore is the cam replacement? Is there a resource out there to give me some steps to do it?

Sorry if this is a dumb question. I've tried to do as much of this work myself as possible - short of obvious machining and the like - and I would like to do this as well so I can get my car back on the road.

 

[Daves55Courier]

I dont think its possible to replace the cam without pulling the motor. If I remember correctly, theres an oil plug in the back of the block behind the flywheel that looks like a freeze plug. You pull that out and then you can pull out the camshaft. The best advice i can give is for you to first get a 57 Ford car shop manual. I think they sell for under $20. You can do anything you need to the engine, chassis, body, and wiring referring to that book. They also cover manual transmissions and third member.

 

[277 I6]

the 57 manual is good idea i got mine from odsolete ford in ok city ok. the cam comes out the front of the engine if you need more infor. email me