gb500":25b514ub said:
...ok thanks ....
i gleaned you havent sold any
but i am still confused : do these engines exist?
- you talk about one supercharged 250 'being made' since 2001 ?
is it completed ? - and dyno'd?
- as you state hp figures in your sig ?
put up some pics and dyno charts
I won't put up dyno charts until I've made my first sale.
No flywheel hp figures, but over 450 hp net isn't a problem with either combination even with an iron non cross flow log. The trick has been to run a very radical cam profile which has very little load stress.
I have four blocks in my basement. I got independent verification that with the small valves and planned mods I could get an engine with with about 252 hp and 270-lb-ft with the required roller cam normally aspirated. The intercooled figure of 480 hp under 16 pounds boost came up, so I had to peal back the boost to reach my target hp. I've got the triple carb style intake manifold all sorted, which effectively high ports the stock log head.
The liners were easy, and now its just the base tune, with fit up early next year. Then searched the turbo and superchargers that did the job. I have access to just a chassis dyno here in Dunedin.
gb500":25b514ub said:
xctasy":25b514ub said:
The truth is exactly as David Ford said in Australia in 1982 when the EFI 4.1 replaced the 4.9 and 5.8 Cleveland. "There are very few V8 die-hards around, and they will come around in time". Its 31 years on, and he was right!
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and yet 9 years later ford australia reintroduced the V8 (5.0l wndsor)cause they were losing sales with only a 4.1 six
The truth is that David Ford was right... the V8 market is tiny compared to the US, and I guess it was Ford Australia's Jac Nasser who only signed off on the 5.0 for the EB and XR8, Fairmont/Fairlane and LTD and GT because the Falcon needed halo models. The single and twin turbo AIT Turbo Falcon's would have been more economical options than imported V8's, and Fords traditional resistance to Diesels and four cylinder turbos and its reliance on contracted out supply for Aussie made autos deep sixed those options. Ford didn't get the help it needed from Borg Warner, so it should have instantly imported Japanese Toyo Kogyo, Jatco or US transmissions when proper T5 and Asian Warner 4 speeds weren't forthcoming from Borg Warner Australia. Ford Australia had the market and supply contract numbers to totally make the economics work, it was from 1980 to 1985, the most profitable wing of Ford worldwide, bar none. What the heck happened? They went soft of specialty product, when Holden was letting Brockie go feral. Phase Autos with there Phase 5 and 6's and AIT couldn't make the economics work, but Ford Australia would have with just the sales of alloy A3 heads, SVO blocks and proper US gareboxes. Ford Australia had Hondas alloy head capacity, a consignment of orders for world wide De Tomaso sales. They after all were making them. Wheels and Street Machines V8's Till 98 compaigner Phil Scott commented on this lamentable state of Turbo Falcon affairs when Ford wouldn't cover Turbo Falcon, Fairmont, Fairlane and LTD transmission warranties on AIT's roller converted BW40 and non world class T5's. THATS WHAT KILLED THE FALCON TURBO IN 1985!!!
I'm very angry that when every Ford post had the best gearboxes and turbo engines around in 1985, Ford Australia were busy scrapping there production tooling and saying no to imported Windsor 5.0's and AOD's for there 164 hp 4.1 EFI's. It was a disgrace. You wouldn't play cricket without a spin bowler, would you? An XF was a cool bit of kit, but without a 250 hp engine, an Automatic Overdrive and an AIT EFI turbo, it wasn't going to set the world on fire like the 1979 to 1983 XD to XE's did. The technological advance Australia stopped when the three years of 164 hp 4.1's failed to get added to by proper gearboxes and performance engines.
When I studied what Ford US did with the SVO engineered Escort EXP and Mustang and Turbo Coupe engines in 1983, its a crime that David Ingall had to buy an aftermarket US piggy back program to do what Ford Australia could have done on every 268 hp T3 60 Turbo EFI 4.1. A Brock Commodore wouldn't see which way a Falcon turbo went if Ford Australia had given the performance maket support on replacing the 4.9 and 5.8 with proper fortified 4.1's. The EEC IV Fords were the most reliable engines Ford ever made, despite the technological advance.
Historic V8 sales were never much chop, even hot six sales were exceptionally low in the 250 2V era, less than the 351C 4-bbl. From an economic point of view, Ford Australia could have pumped up V8 sales like Holden did from 1969 to 1998, by copying Holden's lead on having less capacity. They had 173, 202, 253, 308 and then 350 engines, the right mix. Ford Australia could have had shallower, lighter 3.1 and 3.6 base six engines, then mandatory 255, 302 and then 351 variants on the same basic one size fits all engine block. The US 255 Windsor just used Falcon 200 pistons, and stock 302 internals, as did the Aussie 253 compared to its 308 mates. So Australia could have slapped some 3.68" pistons into the 302C, and some smaller X-flow 1.8 intakes and 1.5 exhast's in the 57 cc close chamber head, and it would have killed every 245 and 265 Hemi. And every 2 and 4-bbl 253.
Ford Australia had the market, and then reverse engineered its demise. Max Gransden even admitted it in 1985, but the demsire of the Cleveland was made in Dearborn by Henry Ford II in 1979, not Australia. Ultimately, the 302C out numbers the 351C 5 to 1 in survival and numbers made, but the I6 in 200 and 250 capacities out numbers the V8 well over 10 to 1. Holden's Warrick Bryce let slip when he discussed the historical numbers when the 304 EFI came out in 1988...that historically, V8 sales were about 20% of H or V car sales, or about 10 000 vehicles max. Ford found the same thing, so it could tricked feed the luxobarges and GT, GXL's and Ghias with 302 and 351's for 12 years with nil investment cost. Chrysler had the best V8's in the world, bar none, a tuned LA 340 or 440 Big block kills any stock small or big block Ford, but they pumped up six cylinder sales to suit the market.
In summary, a junkyard dog 200 250 block of any denomination is cheaper to get, easier to rework, and if its marketed right, eclipses even a melodical Cleveland. It was held back by Ford because of the excellence of it top line Windsoe and Cleveland V8'S. But it doesn't suffer as much from thin wall blocks, head cracking and coreshift like our Aussie Cleveland did, and the front block cracks aren't a major to fix. The real issue is Ford Australia did the numbers on the turbo six in 1984, and, service backup, insurance wise, and durability wise, it backed out because of the cost of getting it to work with the busted a$$ Borg Warner 40 trans. All it had to do was make a 2/3rds SBF low mount block, and job done. The crime was they had all the techonology, still do, and they can't figure on what grass roots modifiers really like to do.
