TBI
- Thread starter ski4evr
- Start date
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Anonymous
Guest
I am intrigued by the Holly single barrel throttle bodies that you mentioned. What is the application? Are they after market? If they are aftermarket, what ECM do they use?
I am contemplating a switch to TBI on my 62 Falcon, 200 I-6. I have been checking out Mega Squirt. This is a really simple system that should be pretty fool proof. I am looking for the simplest throttle bodies to complete the system. I would probably use only one TB.
In my case, I am looking for brain dead simplicity rather than performance.
Mike A
I am contemplating a switch to TBI on my 62 Falcon, 200 I-6. I have been checking out Mega Squirt. This is a really simple system that should be pretty fool proof. I am looking for the simplest throttle bodies to complete the system. I would probably use only one TB.
In my case, I am looking for brain dead simplicity rather than performance.
Mike A
It is made specifically for Jeeps, but should work for the logs. It uses the older Projection ECU from Holley, though I think the newer Commander 950 may work with it.
As far as blocking off the runners, I'd say use a angle grinder, cut the log vertically, insert a piece of iron stock and weld it where you made the cut.
Slade
As far as blocking off the runners, I'd say use a angle grinder, cut the log vertically, insert a piece of iron stock and weld it where you made the cut.
Slade
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Anonymous
Guest
Just a random thought. Is the interior of the log machine bored clear through like where the freeze plugs are at the end? If so, you could drive a freeze plug past the first two ports at each end thus separiting them from the middle ports. If the interior of the log is not bored all the way through, perhaps a machine shop could extend the bore far enough to get the freeze plugs to the proper depth of the log.
If you could get freeze plugs in far enough to block off the ports, would be a good idea to drill a small hole into those interior freeze plugs to equalize pressure? I ask this because many multi carb setups that I have seen have balancing tubes between the manifolds.
Nor Cal Mike
If you could get freeze plugs in far enough to block off the ports, would be a good idea to drill a small hole into those interior freeze plugs to equalize pressure? I ask this because many multi carb setups that I have seen have balancing tubes between the manifolds.
Nor Cal Mike
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Anonymous
Guest
I believe that the bottom of the log has ridges running the entire length
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Anonymous
Guest
yeah, that's what I meant, it has been a while since I've looked down one.
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Anonymous
Guest
Is it really necessary to seperate these throttle bodies? I assume that if your are running three throttle bodies from one simple throttle body type computer, they are all operating in batch. If so, you will be loading the entire log when the injectors fire anyway. It would still be better than having a single entry point in the center of the log as in a carb or a single TBI set up.
Mike A
Mike A
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Anonymous
Guest
maybe this give you more a idee how its look with a chopd head !
stil working on it ,have to flatten the intakes nicely and make a adapterplate for making the crossflow intake attach to it !
this is my test head , when ready and workin i got a 78 head here for making the real thing !
some nice tubing bend to do so the cross intake tube wil fit the 200 head ,and a new desing adapterplate for the injectors to make
stil working on it ,have to flatten the intakes nicely and make a adapterplate for making the crossflow intake attach to it !
this is my test head , when ready and workin i got a 78 head here for making the real thing !
some nice tubing bend to do so the cross intake tube wil fit the 200 head ,and a new desing adapterplate for the injectors to make
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Anonymous
Guest
so is it possible to grab a throttle body from say a mustang with TBI or something with TBI and grab the computer module and throttle body and whatever else is involved...or is the megasquirt system relatively the simplest system u can use?
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Anonymous
Guest
Mega squirt is pretty simplest and cheap. It is cheep because it is a kit like the Radio Shack kits of old. You have to assemble the ECM and make it work yourself. There is a chat board to ask questions from others who have been there before.
Another simple system, but more pricey, is Simple Digital Systems (SDS). This is a fully assembled ECM. Tuning can be done by an included control box so a laptop is not necessary.
Both systems leave it to you to choose and mount your own injectors, throttle body(s), engine temp sensor, throttle position sensor, oxygen sensor, fuel return line, fuel rail and fuel pump. Did I leave anything out?
You can go for a simple TBI set up or port injection if you so choose.
The base systems are fuel only so ignition is still managed the old fashion way. Ignition management can be added, either with an electronically managed dizzy or crank trigger.
Mike A
Another simple system, but more pricey, is Simple Digital Systems (SDS). This is a fully assembled ECM. Tuning can be done by an included control box so a laptop is not necessary.
Both systems leave it to you to choose and mount your own injectors, throttle body(s), engine temp sensor, throttle position sensor, oxygen sensor, fuel return line, fuel rail and fuel pump. Did I leave anything out?
You can go for a simple TBI set up or port injection if you so choose.
The base systems are fuel only so ignition is still managed the old fashion way. Ignition management can be added, either with an electronically managed dizzy or crank trigger.
Mike A
A
Anonymous
Guest
I'm new at fuel injected stuff and havent been too interested in it till now, so please bear with me if i ask some pretty "stupid" questions. and where can i get a Simple Digital System from?
I dont really know the setup of TBI so if someone has a diagram to show how it works that would be awesome...but on my dads truck, the gas gets shot through the top of the throttle bodies (dual throttle body)......it looks like its all built together though...
would it be possible to grab a throttle body of any vehicle and adapt an injector to the top of it to squirt fuel in? Does the oxygen sensor act like a choke, or does it controll the leanness/richness of the mixture, or both? How much work is involved in putting in a fuel return line? Could u grind the intake log the same way u would for 2 single barrel carbs and attach 2 throttle bodies the same size and run the fuel lines from the pump to a fuel rail to the injectors...i suppose connecting the throttles would be just as difficult as with carbs? can u use the mechanical pump and just have a regulator attached to the fuel rail?
the biggest question is...are the benifits worth it enough to swap from caberated to TBI...or is it just unique? everyone gets a kick out of the fact that i've bored out my carb and rejetted and stuff so i'm in no hurry to get unique too fast....but if i get power and fuel economy out of the deal then I will certainly be interested in this, although fuel economy isnt too bad if i dont matt it.
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Anonymous
Guest
There is no such thing as a stupid question. I'll answer your questions the best that I can. I am sure there are others who know a lot more than I.
1.Where can i get a Simple Digital System from?
SDS has a web site. Do a search for Simple Digital Systems.
2. I dont really know the setup of TBI so if someone has a diagram to show how it works ?
TBI (Throttle Body Injection) is basically an electronic carb. It has one or more injectors mounted in the throttle body. The fuel and air is mixed on the TB housing as does a carb. Port injection moves the injectors into the intake manifold near each intake port. The TB in a port injection set up simply meters air.
3.would it be possible to grab a throttle body of any vehicle and adapt an injector to the top of it to squirt fuel in?
If you get a TBI set up the injectors are already there.
4. Does the oxygen sensor act like a choke, or does it controll the leanness/richness of the mixture, or both?
The oxy sensor screws into a welded bung in the exhaust header pipe. It senses how much oxygen is in the exhaust and relays that info to the computer (ECM). It does not act as a choke. Cold mixture is dictated by ECM from info collected by the engine temp sensor.
5.Could u grind the intake log the same way u would for 2 single barrel carbs and attach 2 throttle bodies?
Yes
6. i suppose connecting the throttles would be just as difficult as with carbs?
Yes, but you also need to mount a throttle position sensor as well.
7. can u use the mechanical pump and just have a regulator attached to the fuel rail?
No. You must use an electric pump designed for FI. You must also install a return line. It isn't hard to do but there must be a place to connect it in the gas tank. DO NOT TRY TO WELD ONE IN YOURSELF. It is extremely dangerous to do so.
8. the biggest question is...are the benifits worth it?
It depends on your skill and/or $$$ level. Your engine will run cleaner, get better gas milage and will need less work to keep in top running form.
I hope this helps.
Mike A
1.Where can i get a Simple Digital System from?
SDS has a web site. Do a search for Simple Digital Systems.
2. I dont really know the setup of TBI so if someone has a diagram to show how it works ?
TBI (Throttle Body Injection) is basically an electronic carb. It has one or more injectors mounted in the throttle body. The fuel and air is mixed on the TB housing as does a carb. Port injection moves the injectors into the intake manifold near each intake port. The TB in a port injection set up simply meters air.
3.would it be possible to grab a throttle body of any vehicle and adapt an injector to the top of it to squirt fuel in?
If you get a TBI set up the injectors are already there.
4. Does the oxygen sensor act like a choke, or does it controll the leanness/richness of the mixture, or both?
The oxy sensor screws into a welded bung in the exhaust header pipe. It senses how much oxygen is in the exhaust and relays that info to the computer (ECM). It does not act as a choke. Cold mixture is dictated by ECM from info collected by the engine temp sensor.
5.Could u grind the intake log the same way u would for 2 single barrel carbs and attach 2 throttle bodies?
Yes
6. i suppose connecting the throttles would be just as difficult as with carbs?
Yes, but you also need to mount a throttle position sensor as well.
7. can u use the mechanical pump and just have a regulator attached to the fuel rail?
No. You must use an electric pump designed for FI. You must also install a return line. It isn't hard to do but there must be a place to connect it in the gas tank. DO NOT TRY TO WELD ONE IN YOURSELF. It is extremely dangerous to do so.
8. the biggest question is...are the benifits worth it?
It depends on your skill and/or $$$ level. Your engine will run cleaner, get better gas milage and will need less work to keep in top running form.
I hope this helps.
Mike A
A
Anonymous
Guest
thanks very much Mike..i appreciate your help...i have one more question...
u would only have to attach one throttle position sensor where u normally put in on one of the throttle bodies right? because both are opening and closing at the same time so its not that much work to just install one where its supposed to be...or will the TPS be in the way of something when connecting the two throttles? i cant imagine it being so...i think i'm gonna go to the car parts yard this weekend and see what i can find...is there anything off any vehicle that i should look out for? carbs dissapear quick...throtle bodies n stuff stay longer so its eaier to find parts for that.
u would only have to attach one throttle position sensor where u normally put in on one of the throttle bodies right? because both are opening and closing at the same time so its not that much work to just install one where its supposed to be...or will the TPS be in the way of something when connecting the two throttles? i cant imagine it being so...i think i'm gonna go to the car parts yard this weekend and see what i can find...is there anything off any vehicle that i should look out for? carbs dissapear quick...throtle bodies n stuff stay longer so its eaier to find parts for that.
If you want to do multiple 1bbl throttle bodies, look for a Tempo, Topaz, or an old 4 cyl Taurus with the 1bbl TBI. It is an integrated unit that has the fule pressure regulator and injector in the body. The bolt pattern is the same as a YF 1bbl and it has a neat low profile hat that allows you to duct air from a remote air cleaner.
Two or three of those run with a Megasquirt would be very interesting.
Two or three of those run with a Megasquirt would be very interesting.
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Anonymous
Guest
all right i'll keep an eye out for those, thanks for the heads up on that. i was just thinking....woudnt the TBI stup also be easier for turbo/super charging? your wouldnt have to worry bout the floats or anything like the carb and wouldnt the ECM or something regulate the fuel for that? and since u say that there are neat low pro hats for ducting air wouldnt that be perfect for running the charger to it?
twentyover
Well-known member
Demonslayer-
You only need a single TPS- for Megasquirt, and several others, the TPS is used to determine how much accel enrichment you are going to need, by looking at a voltage change vs. time. If you mash the throttle down, it will have a large change in voltage over a short period of time, indicating you want some big accel enrichment. If it detects small changes, it adjusts accel enrichments down from the slam the throttle open cue.
The TPS is also used for flood clear. If you keep the throttle full open while you crank the engine, it will shut down (or at least reduce) the amount of injected fuel to clear flodding problems.
These controls are executed by the injection control module, but the need input to inject the correct amount of fuel.
Above response is based on a speed density system- there are also alpha-N systems that detect throttle angle (alpha) and engine RPM (N)- typically used for rngines with huge cams. Can't use alpha-N with turbo motors, as it can't detect the difference between boost pressures as it's not sensing or responding to that. In an alpha-N, the TPS provide the alpha signal.
You only need a single TPS- for Megasquirt, and several others, the TPS is used to determine how much accel enrichment you are going to need, by looking at a voltage change vs. time. If you mash the throttle down, it will have a large change in voltage over a short period of time, indicating you want some big accel enrichment. If it detects small changes, it adjusts accel enrichments down from the slam the throttle open cue.
The TPS is also used for flood clear. If you keep the throttle full open while you crank the engine, it will shut down (or at least reduce) the amount of injected fuel to clear flodding problems.
These controls are executed by the injection control module, but the need input to inject the correct amount of fuel.
Above response is based on a speed density system- there are also alpha-N systems that detect throttle angle (alpha) and engine RPM (N)- typically used for rngines with huge cams. Can't use alpha-N with turbo motors, as it can't detect the difference between boost pressures as it's not sensing or responding to that. In an alpha-N, the TPS provide the alpha signal.
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Anonymous
Guest
thanks alot twentyover, that was a good explanation. kinda nice that it clears flooding problems.
