The taboo question...

[burnoutstang]

Ok here it goes, and be gentle. I have read and read and read about the right size turbo to use on a 200. I have gleaned that its about a 68 ar size just by browsing through old posts. I know that there is a lot more to these figures, but I'm already really confused. I wish I had the money to try a few turbos out, but I'm curious, what turbos have proven successful for you guys on stock engines? I appreciate you guys taking the time to try various ones out and share the results. And I'm not looking for a drag car or anything incredibly fast. But I'd like a good upgrade for my occasional driver. Thanks a bunch and please don't chew me out to bad for asking this question.

 

[350kmileford]

Hey buddy, I have been looking for this answer as well!

Just yesterday I emailed the guys at http://www.atpturbo.com/ for some information. They emailed me back today, but simply for more input. I gave them various parameters for the turbo, and I asked that they would give me multiple options. Once I get the email back, I'll share it here. The options will be for the 200 ci, btw . .

 

[burnoutstang]

That would be great. Looks like we have the same car so what should work for you should work for me. Thanks for your help. I'm sure you and I aren't the only people looking for an answer to that question.

 

[Jmonty]

Guys,

Take a look at Linc's200 turbo saga on here... he has the size shown, pics of the install & a detailed account of the trials & tribulations of doing a turbo install (using a 1bbl carb no less!)

Also take a gander at Bort62's post running down the steps.

Both of those posts should be able to give you a good idea of what you need & what it takes to slap a turbo on one of these inlines.

I'm not an expert on this forum at all but I do know that the more you look and try to find something, the better the response from others. Basically, the idea is do a little work on your own and others will be happy to lend a hand. If you want to get spoon fed information then you will not get the kind of help that you want.

 

[Jmonty]

I'm not an expert on this forum at all but I do know that the more you look and try to find something, the better the response from others. Basically, the idea is do a little work on your own and others will be happy to lend a hand. If you want to get spoon fed information then you will not get the kind of help that you want.

Ok well, open mouth insert foot. I just re-read your inital post and you said that you've done a bunch of research & are still confused. I'll shut up now before I emabarass myself even more

 

[burnoutstang]

Reading through lincs post I had found several discussions of various size. I guess I'm just overwhelmed with variables. If I'm just missing the magic formula post in that thread then tell me where to find it and I'll be the one to shut up. In the meantime I'll try reading it again. Along with the other two stickies.

 

[burnoutstang]

Maybe I just needed to read his signature.

"Garrett TO4B, S-3 Trim compressor, "O" trim turbine, .68 A/R housing, blow thru stock Holley 1946 1 -bbl."

Anybody else have experience with this particular setup?
And at the end of the day, is this a pretty good setup? The plan for linc was to build a drag car from what I understand (?) So is this setup appropriate for a streetable car? Though I admire his courage, I'd rather not blow my engine up.

 

[350kmileford]

I am just using this as en example, I AM NOT GOING TO BUY AN EBAY TURBO.

But this would be too big right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/t4-62-1- ... 072040511&

The A/R ratios are good for intake and exhaust, but the inlet/outlet diameters seem too large? Yay, nay?

 

[Jmonty]

I am just using this as en example, I AM NOT GOING TO BUY AN EBAY TURBO.

But this would be too big right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/t4-62-1- ... 072040511&

The A/R ratios are good for intake and exhaust, but the inlet/outlet diameters seem too large? Yay, nay?

A 2 1/2" outlet doesn't seem too big. The really important detail is the compressor map which that posting doesn't list. It will tell you how much air will be flowing at what boost level so that you can match the turbo to the type of usage you want. A daily driver on 7-9 psi will need a different turbo than a race only car at 20 psi.

As far as buying an Ebay turbo, why not? Get a used one for cheap that is about the size you want, try it and see. I believe that Ian (Bort62) got his for $25 or something like that. He had do a little cleaning and lube to it, it's not perfect but that's how you learn about these kinds of things (along with reading some reference material.) The recommended book by Hugh MacInnes is available on Amazon. I bought the book and it is very informative.

I have other things to do to my Ranchero before I sink money into a turbo (rebuild the suspension & new brakes & install the 8" rear & get the Megasquirt up & running) but I plan on having a turbo on that car in the next 2 years. Yeah I really do plan that far out

 

[burnoutstang]

I am of the same philosophy. I think that there are deals to be had on ebay, but I want to make sure its at least in the same ball park for performance. I am curious how a T3 off of say a volvo or saab would do. They say the general engine size on these is a 2.3. But would it be effective if I'm only trying to make 9 psi?

 

[drag-200stang]

By the questions you guys are asking, it seems like you did not read Linc's turbo faq sticky completely. It is very well written.

1) Read Linc's faq completely.
2) Get the two different Mr. Bell's books.
3) Go to as recommended Ray Halls turbo calculation site. Go to turbo map calculations. Forget pick a turbo calc. Read instructions completely. There are some tricks. Play with this and you'll really learn alot about turbo compressor sizing.

Linc's turbo is a very good turbo for street use but everybody's driving style is different. It may be a little large for a bone stock engine. But it is old and outdated. The newer compressors are more efficient and lighter weight.

If you have the money, you'd be better off with a mild cam and less boost. If you have more money, larger undercut and backcut performance valves would be nice. And it certainly wouldn't hurt to have the large log late model heads.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

if you are going to boost a stock 200 (and a small log at that) then just get a ford 2.3L turbo. make sure it is a garrett and not an IHI (although some have had success with the smaller IHI) They can be found cheap and will be a good way ot get your feet wet. Stepping up to a larger turbo out of the box will lead to more tuning needed to even get some results. Don't forget Linc has been playing with turbos for awhile and was able to get results right away. if you run a big turbo and not alot of boost it won't be much fun.

While you figure out what to get for a turbo work on some other things. you are going to need a fuel system with a higher pressure electric pump (not many have had success with the stock mech pumps and most the switch have been better off.....myself included) are you going to upgrade the carb? Linc didn't but he is running a secondary fuel supply to it. so lets say you are going to do a bigger carb (like say a holley 350cfm 2bbl)

you are going to need an adaptor, an electric pump and lines, regulator, throttle linkage work and say a duraspark ignition or similar while you are at it. right there you have a good amount of work ahead of you.

then if you have a turbo selected you need to figure out your plumbing. you can J pipe it or have a header built. For your charge piping you will have to get a bonnet for the carb and route that around.

you need to learn to read a compressor map. go to the turbonetics website and turbomustangs.com and do some reading there on maps. find a compressor that will work for you and then work on the turbine side of things.


As they say there are alot of ways to skin a cat.

(shameless plug.....I have been trying to find a buyer for my fairlanes motor and trans)

 

[Bort62]

I'll jump in here:

I did the calculations for a stock 200 based on a few assumptions. I'm not sure how well this will post...


Turbo Sizing
CID 200
Max RPM 5000
VE % 65
CFM = 188.0787037

Target Boost 15
Ambient Temp 75 Pressure Ratio= 2.020408163
Compressor Eff. 0.75 Outlet Temperature (Ideal)= 192.8193992
Temperature Rise(Ideal)= 117.8193992
Temperature Rise = 157.0925323
Outlet Temperature = 232.0925323
Density Ratio = 1.561811921
Compressor Inlet CFM = 293.7435615 % increase in Airflow
lbs/min= 20.26830575 56


I would appreciate input from anyone who sees errors in my assumptions. With the output of this, one can look @ compressor maps and decide what turbo is best.

I haven't done this yet because I've gotten distracted with about 100 other things on the car. Maybe it's time.

 

[drag-200stang]

Bort,

Your calculations look right to me. I keep pushing the Ray Hall's map calculator because my math isn't that good. I went there and put in your numbers and got close to the same thing, but it gives me the ability to map 5 rpm and boost ranges. It will then overlay the pounds per minute on common compressor maps. You can click back and forth and pick the one that keeps all the ranges in the sweet spot. The problem with picking a map that looks good at 20 lbs/min at 5,000 rpm could be at surge at 1,000.

It looks to me like a T3 "60" trim compressor or a T3 super "60" would work well.


www.turbofast.com.au/turbomap.html

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

and a T3 "60" happens to be the stock compressor on all T3 equiped 2.3L ford turbo motors. you just need to pick between the .48 and .63 exhaust sides. I have been happy with mine. on the 2.3L in stock form (boost levels) of 8psi they were a little oversized but once the boost was turned up they got in their sweet spot and could haul some ass. the 2.3L is similar in airflow to the 200 (the 2.3 just has a slightly higher VE and rpm range) so I think it makes a good match. Also not many people are getting up to 5K on a stock 200. they seem to fall flat a little sooner.

 

[350kmileford]

This info is really helping me. What if one had a p/p aluminum head, arp studs, balanced internals and other necessary goodies?? Also, probability of 5500 rpm or more? Would the above listed turbo be unmatched?

 

[Does10s]

I am just using this as en example, I AM NOT GOING TO BUY AN EBAY TURBO.

But this would be too big right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/t4-62-1- ... 072040511&

The A/R ratios are good for intake and exhaust, but the inlet/outlet diameters seem too large? Yay, nay?

This one is to big for a street 200. You'll have trouble spooling it before 3000rpm.
For the street, smaller is better. The larger 2.3L turbos will work well on a 200 that's used for daily driver duty. Get the one with the .63 A/R exhaust housing. (I think that's the correct A/R, there are two sizes...get the larger one.)

If you want a T04 style then get the 58mm with a .58 A/R housing. It'll have a little lag but will work just fine.
Are you running a stick or automatic?
Will


Will

 

[350kmileford]

When the turbo goes in, it'll be a 5 speed.

 

[burnoutstang]

Perfect! This was the exact information I was looking for. This will give me some figures and ideas to work with while I look for a turbo. Duraspark down, fuel system is next...

 

[350kmileford]

This is pretty much what you folks were just describing?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... 294891680+

I was just reading more on turbos. Someone help me break this down:

T3/T4E-60

Turbonetics.com claims that this has a .63 a/r turbine trim, what is the compressor a/r?

They say the compressor has a trim of 60... They say it has a "stage 3" turbine trim... what do they mean/what are those specs?

http://www.spooledmotorsports.com/turbo ... tg_3%2C.63

Edit:

I found this turbo flow chart for the T3 "60", it is the correct chart for this turbo?

Now, If I plan on running between 8-15 psi, and I use Linc's 200's example data:

I used the Ray Hall calculator with these input data:
Bore: 3.68
stroke: 3.13
cyls: 6
RPM: 5000
Temp: 24* C
V.E. 70%
Press 15 psi
comp eff 72%
intc eff 75%
(You can fine tune the data later, just plug some conservative numbers in for now....and remember, NOTHING is 100% efficient Wink )

The answer came up with about 26 pounds per minute.
Hold that thought....

I can map 8-15 psi at 26 pounds per minute:

If I mapped that correctly????? then I would need to run at least 15 psi to maintain approx. 70% efficiency. Again, if I am doing this right, it seems like that would be the wrong turbo for around 8 psi?


Let me know what looks right, let me know what I did wrong. Someone please tell me I flunked up and that's actually an ideal street turbo >_<

Edit: Another consideration? http://cheapturbo.stores.yahoo.net/gat360trw63a.html