White smoke at idle, out of ideas!!!!

Thanks guys, I plan on doing the fix myself as well. I did do it to gain the experience, but obviously I made a wrong turn somewhere. The issue I had with Bill's response was merely the fact that he recommended the most drastic thing possible before I had even gone through all the diagnostic steps. He lurks for 2 weeks without saying a word, then pops back up within hours of me posting my final results to toss some salt in the wound and collect his kudos, chiding me like a child with his "You have wasted several weeks of playing around with a ring problem from the beginning. Get your engines lower end done by a professional & install PC valve guide seals. I'm very sorry all the previous $$$ spend in vein." First off, it's VAIN not VEIN. One has to do with the ego, the other transmits blood through your body. Of course it stinks I have to redo the rings, but out of the 10 or so respondents, only he chose to be a d**k about it. Bubba walked me through step by step, professional the whole way, and we reached the same conclusion. Difference is, we exhausted all other options and didn't just jump to conclusions.

Anyway... 170-3tree, I plan on doing all of that. If I go into this motor and do it step by step (which I did before, but apparently not enough) and it ends up still smoking, I'll have to jam it into a river and buy a Prius. Thanks for all the tips!
 
Like it or not we usually learn the best of life's lessons from problems. I think you could easily pull head, drop the pan, and push the rods out with the engine in the car. There is probably no reason to disassemble the whole engine it might be quickest way find out what happened and get it back running. :nod:
 
Either way you will get her running clean for sure. I forgot about the in the car method, as its not an option for me at all with minimal workspace. And if needed, won't be too hard to pull again if it came down to that.
 
TH,
There's rivers in Tucson? even if not rainin up on Lemon?
;-)

"...pull head, drop the pan, and push the rods out with the engine in the car..."
Hummm, may B this non-mechanic CAN stay up w/Bill & bubba?
8^0
 
I'm enjoyin dis thread (all but the side comments, plez stop) - learnin much.
Hopefully the dialogue can return to 'the other human condition": 'knowledge' (rather than "emotion"). Otherwise it degrades each person and the site.
Sorry for documenting my opinion here. I can understand it - loss of time/continued mechanical hassles and response to putdowns. Unfortunately the only result is to continue or stop. Plez decide in the forum and my favor.

So a 500 or more finish is obtainable by non-machinist (i.e. in da car)?
 
:nono: Let's keep everything within the forum rules please!

:idea: For those that don't know the rules or need a refresher please read this link
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=44257

There will be no more of this crap!
 
A Molly ring has been my choose since the 70's for most of my builds, as was all ready said they will last longer. Cast rings are easy to seat they tend to wear the cylinders though. And as was said each type ring needs to have the correct bore finish (hone).

Edit: When you get the head off again you can use a small flashlight and look down beside the piston at your ring end gap. If you are careful you might also be able to use some wire gauges to measure the gap to see if it's close.


Link below might of some help too, the pictures are from echo1955’s engine build couple years ago (200 .040 over) shows how he measured the end gaps and installed the rings staggering the gaps He also used Quickseat on the cylinders. Good Luck viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63640&start=150
 
Kouwell! thanks guys -
Real quick jack a this thread:
is there 3 heads now? the sm log, flat top, & hex? or just the 1st & last?
Thanx,
cf
 
OK. Your leak down test is not horible.

This engine is barely broken in. I bet when you had the head off you could still see cross hatching in the cylenders. So a less then perfect leak down might not be unexpected. The fact that air doesw not escape from the intake or exhaust is a good sign.

Some error could come from the tester itself. What do you know about this particular tester?

The fact that it does not start smoking for five minuets and only smokes at idle bothers me.

Could it be a too rich condition?

At start up the engine needs the extra gas so it doesn't show up till the engine warms up.

At idle when warm the extra gas could be washing down the cylender walls of oil and burning it that way.

I would try adjusting the idle mixture, go lean till the engine starves out, to see if that helps. It's cheap and you can try it before tearing down the engine.eap and you can try it before tearing down the engine.ore tearing down the engine.
 
I asked earlier about the possibility of worn valve guides being the root of the issue.
Anyone have any thoughts on that?
 
69.5Mav":2hsgoi5y said:
gas could be washing down the cylender walls of oil and burning it that way
Click to expand...

Are you sure it's not leaking oil. If you had a leak that only happenned above idle you might not catch it. I would examin the engine and compartment closely for signs of an oil leak.

I do believe you are burning oil but the cause is still a little in dought for me, only at idle after 5 min., so might I suggest another test.

Warn the car up, check the oil, the drive straight, no idling, for 50 or so miles and check the oil level again. If it drops by the same amount previously experrienced then you know that you are burning oil at RPMs other then idle.

I hesitate to mention this but if the rings are in up side down they will evetually seal up so You might want to take a wait and see attitude unless you can not live with the idle smoke.

The police might eventually make the decission for you with a fix it tickey, something to consider.

In the mean time try leaning out the idle mixture. It can't hurt and is quick and free.
 
Coool Mav! I will definitely try that and see what happens. I can live with the smoke a bit longer if need be, really its only an annoyance at lights. Thing runs like a top otherwise, which is why its so heartbreaking. Thanks again!
 
UPDATE:

I messed with the air/fuel mixture screw on the carb. Bottomed it out, back out 1 and a half turns and fired it up. Let it warm up a bit then slowly turned the screw in. at started to run a little choppy, but I was able to bottom it out without the car dying. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, as I often am. but from what I understand, if your car runs ok with the screw only 1 turn out, that means your jetting is too big, and if it runs with the screw 3 turns out but doesn't below that, it means your jet is too small. So, what do you guys think? Is my jet too big and dumping gas into the head at idle or what?
 
Has the carb been sitting for a long time? If so you might need to clean it good and check if the float is set right or sticking. I don't think would change the jet yet average for stock engine ranges from 1 1/4 to 1 3/4 out on mixture setting. From what you describe sounds like a float that's a bit high or sticking. Good luck
 
TucsonHooligan":271zfrte said:
Bottomed it out, back out 1 and a half turns and fired it up. Let it warm up a bit then slowly turned the screw in. at started to run a little choppy, but I was able to bottom it out
Click to expand...

Did this have any effect on your smokking problem.

Anything new.
 
It seems to have helped the smoking problem, but my idle is choppy now. I won't really know for sure until I drive it a bit and check to see if the oil level drops. Also, I can't see smoke, but it still smells the same as before, like something is burning. I haven't discounted the long drive/oil check idea, it's just that I work and go to school so a trip like that takes some planning. How are idle jets measured on the HW 5200 carbs? I could order a few and try em out if it's a simple system.
 
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