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Big Bell 200

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BetsyBabe64
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Big Bell 200

Post #1 by BetsyBabe64 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:23 am

This weekend i'm going to buy a 1983 200 that came out of a Fairmont wagon or something. i talked the guy down to $200.00. He says it was rebuilt and has about 7500 miles on it. i plan on taking it apart one hundred percent and doing a complete over haul on it using everything classicinlines has to offer.

i would like to start looking for a transmission, i want a manual. i want something that is performance oriented. From my understanding, these engines can accept V8 transmissions with some modification. What are my options ? My dream one day is to have a rachet shifter but until then an H shift will do. Thanks in advance for any replies.

ps.

i want to do a triple carb set up, dual exhaust, aluminum head, the works. i want to utilize what classic inlines has to offer. i want a falcon that can be driven on the street as well as maybe having some fun on a drag strip ?
My cars name is Betsy Babe.
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1964 4-Door Base Sedan Falcon * 1965 2-Door Deluxe Sedan Falcon

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stevexysupersix
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #2 by stevexysupersix » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:43 am

Go ya hardest!! :nod: 8)
Cheers, Steve
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #3 by rbohm » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:32 pm

8) the bell housing pattern is 2/3 of a V8 pattern on that block. the upper two holes have been moved down and out, so you can use a V8 bell housing in modified form for any transmission you wish. check out this link for more information;

http://fordsix.com/V8Bell.php
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #4 by MPGmustang » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:46 pm

BetsyBabe64 wrote:i want to do a triple carb set up, dual exhaust, aluminum head, the works.

umm... Why do a triple when you have the aluminum? the triple is for the log heads...

If I had the big bell 200 I'd just go with an AOD, it's a c4 with an over drive. But since you want a manual get a T56, 5th and 6th gear are over drives! It'll make the best crusier.

Remember,
Torque saves gas :)
HP saves time :wink:
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #5 by rbohm » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:45 pm

MPGmustang wrote:
BetsyBabe64 wrote:i want to do a triple carb set up, dual exhaust, aluminum head, the works.

umm... Why do a triple when you have the aluminum? the triple is for the log heads...


good point. if i were to go with the aluminum head i would probably use a small four barrel carb, like the small 4100 autolite or the 390 cfm holley.

If I had the big bell 200 I'd just go with an AOD, it's a c4 with an over drive.


8) actually it is an FMX with an overdrive.
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BetsyBabe64
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #6 by BetsyBabe64 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:55 pm

Here are pictures of the engine. Click the thumbnails to enlarge.
Does this look like a winner ? The guy sent these to me, he say's it's either an 82` or an 83` but is pretty sure it's an 83`. $200.00 and it's 100 miles away. I'm trying to pick it up this weekend. This will be my first engine rebuild.

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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #7 by rocklord » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:07 am

Pull all of those vacuum hoses off and desmog it, Please!

It should have the large volume log head; let us know what the casting code on it is.
Some people on the forum are looking for a large log head and since you aren't planning on using it, you could recoup some of your acquisition cost.
I don't remember if the later 200s went back to the forged connecting rod, maybe someone can chime in on that. You definitely want to use the forged rods if you rebuild it.

One idea that you may want to consider is to install the engine and run it while gathering the parts for the rebuild and upgrading. If it only has 7000 miles, it could still be runnable as-is.

Good luck and keep us informed.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #8 by drag-200stang » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:22 pm

Betsy,

From what I can see, that is not an '83 big bell - BB block code. Take a picture of the back of the block. I could tell you for sure. It looks like a dual pattern block that will take the 8 1/2" or 9" flywheel and clutch and their corresponding bellhousing. Most prefer the 9" for holding power. T5 adapters are made for these bellhousings, but a small block V8 bellhousing will not fit this block. Hard to tell with all the smog crap but it looks like you have the large octagon log which is the largest volume and one of the nicest heads. Good find, just not a big bell.
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #9 by BetsyBabe64 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:13 am

i got the engine today ! the guy was nice enough to drive it to me and drop it off for $50.00. All together $250.00. Not bad in my book.

I took off a lot of the junk, and took a look inside. Besides the water, it looks pretty good. Normal wear it looks like. After work i tore off all the silly emission stuff. Here are some thumb nails, click to enlarge.
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Here is a pic of the carb.

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Bug graveyard

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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #10 by Explorer » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:35 pm

Yep, 81 block,1345cc head.
66 Bronco half cab, 203 ci, 9.7:1 comp, CI aluminum head and intake, DSII ignition, Clifford header, Keith Black pistons, Isky 256/256 cam, lifters, chrome moly rings, push rods, Holley 390cfm 4v, 4:11 gears, 3-speed, 30/9.50/15's 18.28mpg pushing a 4000lb brick.
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #11 by BetsyBabe64 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:41 pm

Explorer wrote:Yep, 81 block,1345cc head.


So it's an 1981 200 big bell with a 3H crank huh ? Meaning i can hook just about any transmission i want, I.E V-8 transmissions yeah ?
i'm thinking i'm going to strip it down all the way and start rebuilding it. i still haven't decided on a transmission tho, i'm thinking about a T-56, thanks MPGmustang.
My cars name is Betsy Babe.
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #12 by Explorer » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:55 pm

I really don't know enough to answer the big bell part. My thinking was the low mount starter using the reg SBF bell housing was what they were referring to.
66 Bronco half cab, 203 ci, 9.7:1 comp, CI aluminum head and intake, DSII ignition, Clifford header, Keith Black pistons, Isky 256/256 cam, lifters, chrome moly rings, push rods, Holley 390cfm 4v, 4:11 gears, 3-speed, 30/9.50/15's 18.28mpg pushing a 4000lb brick.
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #13 by JackFish » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:13 pm

Looks like a high mount starter to me.
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #14 by bubba22349 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:27 pm

The block casting number gets you close but to know the true year of your engine you need to look for the actual casting date this will give you exact day that it was cast! The casting date for example will look like this "6M08". :hmmm:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #15 by Explorer » Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:01 pm

JackFish wrote:Looks like a high mount starter to me.
Image

That's my point. Am I correct that the big bell is the SBF low mount starter bell?
66 Bronco half cab, 203 ci, 9.7:1 comp, CI aluminum head and intake, DSII ignition, Clifford header, Keith Black pistons, Isky 256/256 cam, lifters, chrome moly rings, push rods, Holley 390cfm 4v, 4:11 gears, 3-speed, 30/9.50/15's 18.28mpg pushing a 4000lb brick.
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #16 by rbohm » Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:19 pm

Explorer wrote:
JackFish wrote:Looks like a high mount starter to me.
Image

That's my point. Am I correct that the big bell is the SBF low mount starter bell?


8) yes the big bell is a low mount starter, and the one in the picture is a high mount starter.
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #17 by rocklord » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:47 pm

Doesn't the E0 head have 1420 cc log intake, or is it only the E1 head?

Even if your head only has a 1345cc log intake, that's still a good one to have.
Unfortunately, your engine cannot use a SBF bellhousing or AOD transmission, only a small bell C4 or 9-inch six bellhousing/clutch.

Your purchase was still a good one.
Dan

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1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #18 by BetsyBabe64 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:01 pm

so it has a block code of E1BE-FA which is from 1975-1980, then it has an intake code of E0BE-BB which is from 1981-1983.
High mount starter with the 6 bolt bell.

i'm searching for my falcon handbook right now, i seem to have misplaced it.
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #19 by BetsyBabe64 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:40 am

Okay, found my book. So my block is from 1981 and the head is from 1980, but i couldn't find anywhere in my book that says what the code for B is, meaning what vehicle it came out of. I'm assuming it was a fairmont.

Shouldn't the head and block be of the same year ? Is this head special in any way ? i don't know if i should keep it or go with the aluminum head.

i want to possibly do an aluminum head with a 4 barrel carb, remote induction, header with Arvinode Dual Exhaust x pipe, run a generator, manual transmission, disk breaks and maybe maybe power steering. Good thing i have two jobs :shock:
My cars name is Betsy Babe.
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #20 by rocklord » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:25 am

The codes that Ford used were assigned based on the year they came out, E0 for 1980, E1 for 1981. If the design wasn't changed, the codes didn't change. You could have an E0 head on a 1983 200 engine. When the 200 was changed to a low mount starter, the casting code would have changed, probably to E2 since it was used exclusively in 82 vehicles, and late in 81 as a changeover (Ford's line of thinking).

Another example is the C4 transmission. Designed and equipped in 1964 vehicles, it was found in Ford vehicles into the 80's, but still designated as the C4.

As I stated previously, your E0 head is a good one to have since it would have one of the largest log intake volumes, 1345cc. If you want to go with a CI alloy head, sell the E0 to someone on the forum. A 7000 mile head, with minor cleanup and new seals, could be a bolt on.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2020 BMW X3 M, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 473HP, 8-Spd Auto. 0-60mph 4.1sec; 174mph Top Speed.

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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #21 by bubba22349 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:42 pm

Shouldn't the head and block be of the same year ? Is this head special in any way ?


The block casting number is from when part was engineered so it only gets you close to a range of possible years. To know the true year of your engine and head and any other casting you need to look for the actual casting date this will give you exact day that it was cast! The casting date's will look something like this "6M08" on what looks like a small tag cast into part. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #22 by Frankenstang » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:31 pm

BetsyBabe64 wrote:i couldn't find anywhere in my book that says what the code for B is


According to this 'B' is Bronco (EDIT: oops looks like if I'd read closer it's actually Fairmont in '81)
http://www.classicmustang.com/decoding_part_numbers.htm

And for a picture of the 'Big Bell', low mount starter 200 see page 3 of the FFPH, there is a picture of all three together; the high mount, low mount/BB, and 250 from the rear. The BB basically looks alot like the 250 except being a shorter block, with full flanges on either side of the block for BH mounting.
Good luck!
-Robert
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #23 by BetsyBabe64 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:59 pm

rocklord wrote:As I stated previously, your E0 head is a good one to have since it would have one of the largest log intake volumes, 1345cc. If you want to go with a CI alloy head, sell the E0 to someone on the forum. A 7000 mile head, with minor cleanup and new seals, could be a bolt on.


The only thing i don't like about this head (keep in mind, i'm silly and a newbie) is that the intake manifold is apart of the head, and the manifold has some emissions thing on top or something. Does this intake manifold limit my induction possibilities ? Can i have an adapter for a 4v carb or something and if so is it limited in anyway ? And whats up with that thing on top and in front, on the manifold ?? You can see it in these pictures. There is also a thing sticking out the block that's up front on top by the manifold, whats that thing ?

i'm use to my 170 and i'm a newbie. Thank You all for the replies, i love coming home from work and getting to read new things yay :rolflmao:

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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #24 by rocklord » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:56 am

BetsyBabe64 wrote:The only thing i don't like about this head (keep in mind, i'm silly and a newbie) is that the intake manifold is apart of the head, and the manifold has some emissions thing on top or something. Does this intake manifold limit my induction possibilities ? Can i have an adapter for a 4v carb or something and if so is it limited in anyway ? And whats up with that thing on top and in front, on the manifold ?? You can see it in these pictures. There is also a thing sticking out the block that's up front on top by the manifold, whats that thing ?

i'm use to my 170 and i'm a newbie. Thank You all for the replies, i love coming home from work and getting to read new things yay :rolflmao:

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You are limited on your options with the E0 log head, but you're better off than those with an earlier head. 4V carb won't work with the head, but you can do a 2V carb either by adapter or machine for a direct mount. Mike at CI can help you out on either. Look here:

For Direct Mount: http://www.classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=136

For Adapters: http://www.classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=46

That thing that is in front and on top of the manifold is part of the emission system. Take it off and plug it, not needed.
The thing sticking out the block that's up front on top by the manifold I'm guessing is a coolant bypass and utilized by the emission system. It could be the hose that goes to the heater. Did your carb have a spacer under it with coolant lines attached? When dealing with these later engines you have hoses and vacuum lines going everywhere.

If you look on the side of the log intake beside the carb hole, you probably had an EGR valve mounted there. You can cap it off, or fill it in if you do a direct 2V mount.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2020 BMW X3 M, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 473HP, 8-Spd Auto. 0-60mph 4.1sec; 174mph Top Speed.

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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #25 by BetsyBabe64 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:37 pm

if i got the head cleaned up a bit so it's totally a bolt on, how much could i sell it for ?

there's no way to do a triple carb with the manifold, is there ? Sorry for all the dumb questions, thanks everyone.
My cars name is Betsy Babe.
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #26 by early ford fan » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:02 pm

there should be a kit for your head to use three carbs.i fairly sure theres two kits.one for each type of head.

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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #27 by Marine05 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:18 am

As everyone is saying, the Head is from the early 80's but the block itself is from the late 70's. I have a true Big bell with the low mount starter from 81. It has a block casting E1BB. The grommet in the front of the valve cover is for the pcv valve. These engines did not come with coolant spacers under the carbs this late in production. That stopped in the the mid 70's. The "thingy" in the manifold in the front is the vacuum ports for running your carb and fuel vap canister off of. You can definitely get rid of all that smog crap and go to simple straight vac hoses if you wish. I have a holley 2300 350cfm carb on adapter running my power plant and it has made a world of difference on my motor. DUI dizzy to give it the extra kick in the pants and a set of mikes dual outlet cermic coated headers to make her breathe. I had to modify my headers a little but with a high mount on your motor, you wont have any issues.

When is mike gonna come out with headers built especially for low mount starters?
81 Foxbody Hatchback, 200 I6, C4, DUI Dizzy, CI Ceramic dual out headers, true dual magnaflow custom exhaust, 2 barrel Holley 350 Carb, Electric fan,
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Re: Big Bell 200

Post #28 by JackFish » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:58 pm

Marine05 wrote:When is mike gonna come out with headers built especially for low mount starters?

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