Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40, mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry, rzcrisis, DoctorC, jamyers, Motorboy, fastpat, Silverback280, chad, drag-200stang, THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, Jimmys61falcon, rjonah, Sooshi, Robert92867, Invectivus


PLEASE TEST ON http://dev.fordsix.com

<<<***PLEASE READ*** New Site Update >>>

Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Moderator: Mod Squad

don65stang
Registered User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:44 pm

Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Post #1 by don65stang » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:11 pm

Currently the engine I'm about to install is a stock '68 200 that has a small log intake on it. It runs fine, no smoke at start up & no issues. I want to upgrade slowly $500 or $600 at a time as money becomes available.

Stuff I want to do to the engine is: DUI, dual heades, hotter cam, large log intake shaved, ported & 2v Autolite carb, possible engine rebuild (but doesn't seem to need it since runs great right now).

So what order should I do it knowing that after I do an upgrade it may be several weeks or several months before I can do the next upgrade?

User avatar
bookworm007
Registered User
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:10 am
Location: Battle Ground, WA

Re: Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Post #2 by bookworm007 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:24 am

A great place to start is order the falcon performance handbook. I has a ton of great info and even goes into different phases. Also the projects range from things you do with parts from the junkyard to brand new items. Past that I'm sure the other more experienced members with also give some advice. A few more details to help the feela's out would be what trans does it have, is this going to be a daily driver, What compression ratio are you willing to go with ect...
Ain't no such thing as a car too fast

don65stang
Registered User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:44 pm

Re: Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Post #3 by don65stang » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:35 am

Trans will be a 4cyl T5 that's sitting in the garage but currently it's a 3 speed. Rear gears are 3.50 Trac-lok, it will be a daily driver as long as it's not raining. I'm planning on running 89 octane gas.

Thanks.

User avatar
bookworm007
Registered User
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:10 am
Location: Battle Ground, WA

Re: Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Post #4 by bookworm007 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:17 am

Sounds like a fun project! Are those 3.50's in an 8 inch or 8.8? just pure curiosity. If you bottom end is good shape you could get away with leaving it alone, have you had a chance to do leak down and compression tests on the engine? Just to know for sure if you need to rebuild the bottom end or not. I'm not very knowledgable on cams but a little searching on the forum should yield many other builds with similar goals and parts. If it were me i would start with modifying the head its the biggest part of the build and after its done everything else is just bolt on and could be done while driving the car. Something to keep in mind if your engine has the original head gasket your compression ratio is going to drop unless you have the head milled because the new head gaskets are thicker than the old metal ones, you will also need to CC your head so you can start calculating compression ratios and how much to take off the head.
Ain't no such thing as a car too fast

don65stang
Registered User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:44 pm

Re: Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Post #5 by don65stang » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:26 am

Thanks for the tips. The rear is a 9". Previously I had converted it from a 200 6 to a 351W. Now I'm going back to a 6 but will leave the 5 lug setup and beefed up suspension in place. The 200 is a C8DE block and the head is the small log C5DE. I'm looking for a large log head to begin working on. Once that is complete I'll pull the head and install a cam and the large log head. Just wondering if I should go ahead with the DUI first while planning out & working on the other mods.

User avatar
bookworm007
Registered User
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:10 am
Location: Battle Ground, WA

Re: Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Post #6 by bookworm007 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:58 am

I have heard fitting a 351 in the early mustangs is a tight squeeze but i bet she really got up a boogied! I actually have a 1970 head off a 250 it has the second largest valves they put in stock. I have it listed in the small six for sale forum. You could do ignition and other upgrade before if you want but your not going to get the the greatest performance out of them until you address the poor flowing stock intake. But if the old parts are in need of replacement no need to invest time and money in parts you plan to replace.
Ain't no such thing as a car too fast

User avatar
XFlow_Fairlane
VIP Member
Posts: 2561
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:44 pm
Location: Dayton, TN
Contact:

Re: Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Post #7 by XFlow_Fairlane » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:19 pm

I have a smaller Autolite 2v I could let go real cheap. it is a .90 bore or something. Will flow more than the 1100 carb will and be a good stepping stone for moving up to a larger carb with upgrades.

1. I would start with a bolt on adaptor on your existing head for a 2v.
2. Then move on to a header/exhaust
3. Personally I would pass on the DUI and run a TFI with a MSD timing control or a MegaSquirt 1 just for spark.
4. Start looking for a deal on a large log head (pick and pull type yards can be good for this as shipping can be killer on them) and have it rebuilt. I would just stick new valves in it so I could go as large as I want and get some undercut ones. Have the ports opened up as best as you can on these motors and def have the valves unshrouded (a real issue with small bore motors) You will have some money in this and not see a huge gain until you get to the next step (much like the previous steps....all parts of the package) Part of changing valves could come in going to a different stem size to open up retainer and spring choices. A good machinist might be able to spec out a stock or near stock length valve and just bush the guides so it fits cheaper than you can mod out a stock setup (this mostly applies to running a lightweight retainer or small diameter spring)
5. Determin a grind for a cam and select some rocker arms if you are upgrading. You can do rockers with the head but are not necessary with a stock cam. Rebuild motor if needed (recommended to bump up compression to match the head)

I would suggest finding a 200 out of a FOX body. if you find a standard bell 200 you can use the drivetrain you have now but if you can find a large bell 200 you can just set it up for a SBF bell. The whole motor from a pick n pull won't run much more than a head and some parts and you can just rebuild that shortblock along with the head as funds permit (the valves springs really need to be matched to the cam but can always be changed later)


I am also a fan of building stout bottom ends and swapping a stock head on to get a project up and running and then putting money into a built head as it becomes an evening swap then.
Rule: Torque = Fun , Turbo's make Torque

User avatar
XFlow_Fairlane
VIP Member
Posts: 2561
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:44 pm
Location: Dayton, TN
Contact:

Re: Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Post #8 by XFlow_Fairlane » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:19 pm

I have a smaller Autolite 2v I could let go real cheap. it is a .90 bore or something. Will flow more than the 1100 carb will and be a good stepping stone for moving up to a larger carb with upgrades.

1. I would start with a bolt on adaptor on your existing head for a 2v.
2. Then move on to a header/exhaust
3. Personally I would pass on the DUI and run a TFI with a MSD timing control or a MegaSquirt 1 just for spark.
4. Start looking for a deal on a large log head (pick and pull type yards can be good for this as shipping can be killer on them) and have it rebuilt. I would just stick new valves in it so I could go as large as I want and get some undercut ones. Have the ports opened up as best as you can on these motors and def have the valves unshrouded (a real issue with small bore motors) You will have some money in this and not see a huge gain until you get to the next step (much like the previous steps....all parts of the package) Part of changing valves could come in going to a different stem size to open up retainer and spring choices. A good machinist might be able to spec out a stock or near stock length valve and just bush the guides so it fits cheaper than you can mod out a stock setup (this mostly applies to running a lightweight retainer or small diameter spring)
5. Determin a grind for a cam and select some rocker arms if you are upgrading. You can do rockers with the head but are not necessary with a stock cam. Rebuild motor if needed (recommended to bump up compression to match the head)

I would suggest finding a 200 out of a FOX body. if you find a standard bell 200 you can use the drivetrain you have now but if you can find a large bell 200 you can just set it up for a SBF bell. The whole motor from a pick n pull won't run much more than a head and some parts and you can just rebuild that shortblock along with the head as funds permit (the valves springs really need to be matched to the cam but can always be changed later)


I am also a fan of building stout bottom ends and swapping a stock head on to get a project up and running and then putting money into a built head as it becomes an evening swap then.
Rule: Torque = Fun , Turbo's make Torque

don65stang
Registered User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:44 pm

Re: Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Post #9 by don65stang » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:41 pm

Xflow, Thanks for the advice, A couple of clarification questions.

"TFI with a MSD timing control."
What distributor uses TFI that'll work in the 200s?

"200 out of a FOX body. if you find a standard bell 200 you can use the drivetrain you have now but if you can find a large bell 200 you can just set it up for a SBF bell."
When you say find a large bell 200 isn't that what I have with my C8DE block? The distance between the top two bell bolts is 5.5".

User avatar
CoupeBoy
VIP Member
Posts: 3425
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 12:17 am
Location: Fargo, ND
Contact:

Re: Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Post #10 by CoupeBoy » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:29 pm

Cam sensor?
XFlow_Fairlane wrote:Well what I was looking at doing was running a 36-1 on the crank and if I can get a cam sensor I can run sequential fuel and coil pack ignition on a MS3 board. The 36-1 mounting is not too much of an issue to solve but the cam sensor is.

I had swapped some parts around on a 2.3L OHC TFI dissy to work in my old 200. For the ranger trucks you can get a cam sensor that goes in place of the distributor for about $30 but has the larger US shaft size in it.

( google Dorman 689108 for an image)

I found this thread while surfing : http://www.xfalcon.com/forum/showthread ... -The-build!

and halfway down you can see where he did a similar mod for running an AU falcon oilpump drive/dummy shaft. I was hoping to see if there was a later Falcon motor that had a cam sensor in place of the dummy shaft so I could just do a gear swap and drop it in place of the dissy.

Regarding the small bell/dual bell/large bell...

Here is a picture of a 170 that I recently bought from CraigsList. It shows the dual bellhousing pattern, and part of a one horse open sleigh :roll:
Image

adapt a big bell to v8 (from the tech section)
http://www.fordsix.com/V8Bell.php

I know I've got some more junk around here somewhere that might be useful...
check out
http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/

You can thank SoCar72 for this information
The crossmember he made to put a T5 into his Falcon
http://www.phlegm.us/FordSix/SoCar/
And maybe these... drawings..
http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/SoCar/

This pdf has the measurements for the bolt spacing for a small bell
http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/So ... ousing.pdf

have fun,
-ron

don65stang
Registered User
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:44 pm

Re: Planned build steps. Advice needed.

Post #11 by don65stang » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:46 pm

Very good links! Thanks Ron!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests