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Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

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Stormin' Norman
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Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #1 by Stormin' Norman » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:24 pm

I'm having to build my own 3.3L (200 CID) header, because I like long trips, knowing I can find stock V-Belts anywhere. So an Aussie friend donated flanges and collectors, and sent them to me. Single exhaust, 2 tri-y collectors into a 2 in one collector.

Now to make it really challenging, My motor is out of the car, because I'm repairing the driver's side fender core, but I'm using the head off another 1978 Zephyr donor car that I bought for the body parts and the spare I6. I'll use that engine to build up a tri-power, mild cammed 140 HP machine for regular driving.

Its too cold to work in my plastic car shelter until early April, up here, north of North Dakota, so I brought the head in and 'mapped out' the header issues and obstacles via dimensions and key locations, like the AC bracket, the K-member, starter, and of course, the exhaust ports. Then I used metal, coloured clothes hanger wire to get some general idea of the angles from the head to the collectors.

Here's the starting progress pics:

Image

Image

This aqua blue wire shows what I want close to the AC:
Image

This shows the rough standout distance from the block:
Image
Last edited by Stormin' Norman on Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.
My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #2 by Stormin' Norman » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:29 pm

I'm using 304L Stainless Steel 1/16" wall X 1.5" diameter. I'll take the next Modelling step to PVC pipe that I can bend with my heat gun, then cut the stainless and tack weld it for the mandrel bender, here in town. The shop next to his does Ceramic coating.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #3 by xctasy » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:53 pm

Good work.

The first non A/C headers were made by Mike for a Classic inlines head.

Our 81Capri did a custom second for his 2v 250 head to 3.3 conversion

See post 09-26-2014, 12:03 AM

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... ang-member



The Fox body has the battery very close, so you can't shift the A/C unit much.Your hemmed in on each side.

You can go to the low mount Sanden/Ogura like our Aussie XE/XF X-flows did and also the later F series 4.9 EFI trucks used, then place the alternator up high like Jack Fishes 3G conversion.

Option 3, the early Aussie and American York A/C units were on the true left

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... ost1613316

[QUOTE=xctasy]NB//A stock 250 2v head on a stock 3.3 engine takes the stock 67 rear wheel hp up to 105 hp, with 8:1 compression ratio instead of the stock 8.5:1. That's a 57% boost, or stock 92 hp goes up to 144 hp. But with a Holley 350 (similar CFM as the 157 hp 1982 5.0 GT 2V) and the 9.3:1 compression ratio the 1971-1973 250 2V ran, it can go to over 157 hp. A proper breathing head makes a huge difference, its exactly like like comparing a 1967 K code 289 to a 1970 290 hp 302 Boss Mustang, or a 1970 351C 2V 265 HP engine with a 351C 4V HO Phase III or Boss 351C or early Pantera hydraulic cammed GTS 351 330 hp engine. The rear wheel hp difference and general spirit of the 2V 200 engine is the same as comparing the 289 K code and 351C 2V to the hottest Canted valve 302 and 351 Boss small blocks . I know, I've driven behind each engine. They had similar cam spec's, but the better breathing and with 60% greater carburation of the hotter engines, they make the hotter headed Ford engines like the best French women...taken on there own, the head, breathing, aspirations are significant, but added together, these attributes don't just add up, they multiply....


Terry, I am so pleased. It looks soOO clean! It took a while, but everyone is getting into the act you started. Looks like going Aussie performance for the Fox body is the going thing.

Ah the joys of having no emissions inspections for air pump and cat. NAVYCAT, after dealing with all that emission stuff, take note that Terry had to buy your car and take it to Aussie just to get the freedom to do whatcha can't in Cali and several other states!

I only wish Ford US made those 3.3 RS Capris like that from the factory!


That is very awesome. Nice work. Hope things with the health and home are tranquil now

If you want functioning A/C, you can place the old Tecumseh/York/Motorcraft compressor on the drivers side left of the engine bay, where that pesky air pump was. Old XA Falcon's and lots of early dealer installed US Mustangs and Falcon I6's used that set up

Image


(From more on those crazy Aussie engines, see engines2 at http://www.aus-ford-uk.co.uk/html/engines2.html, )


I've got an XA Falcon 200 going in mine, with triple carbs, but it won't ever look as trick as that 2V head.[/QUOTE]
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #4 by Stormin' Norman » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:08 am

^^^^ Thanks Dean.

I want to get this done so I can send the head out for machining, while I get all the Squire trim polished and ready for the re-assembly, after I paint the car. So it's pedal to the metal for me. If Mother Nature favours me, I'll get a week of warm weather in March to finish welding the body repairs, and strip the rest of the wagon body for primer. Meanwhile I do the already stripped doors, tailgate and hood in the basement to primer grade.

I figure it'll take me to next Friday to get the header ready for the bender shop. They do Aircraft and marine headers as well as handrails.
Last edited by Stormin' Norman on Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #5 by Stormin' Norman » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:15 am

Why did Ford not feed us those drooling machines? Emissions is my guess. :roll:
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #6 by CoupeBoy » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:18 am

Looking good
What do you plan on doing for a flange when you switch over to stainless?
What size tubing are you running?
Locally (Fargo, ND) there is a company that makes headers
Stainless Headers Mfg., Inc
And while I think they are a bit expensive, they have a lot of nice pictures that give a person ideas on how to make their own headers.
and I asked about the header flange because I've been working with mustang1966 (Perry) to design some new parts, and I have a DXF/DWG for cutting flanges, but haven't cut one yet.
He created them in both 1pc and 2pc flanges and with both 1.5" round and original square(ish) type holes.
smallSixHeaderFlange_rnd.jpg

smallSixHeaderFlange_stk_2pc.jpg

I have not cut any yet, but if you were interested I could get my rear in gear and pop out a couple for test fitting.

I see a lot of Canadian license plates here on the weekends, maybe I could cut you a set and send it back with one of them :rolflmao:
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1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #7 by Stormin' Norman » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:23 pm

CoupeBoy wrote:Looking good
What do you plan on doing for a flange when you switch over to stainless?
What size tubing are you running?
Locally (Fargo, ND) there is a company that makes headers
Stainless Headers Mfg., Inc
And while I think they are a bit expensive, they have a lot of nice pictures that give a person ideas on how to make their own headers.
and I asked about the header flange because I've been working with mustang1966 (Perry) to design some new parts, and I have a DXF/DWG for cutting flanges, but haven't cut one yet.
He created them in both 1pc and 2pc flanges and with both 1.5" round and original square(ish) type holes.
smallSixHeaderFlange_rnd.jpg

smallSixHeaderFlange_stk_2pc.jpg

I have not cut any yet, but if you were interested I could get my rear in gear and pop out a couple for test fitting.

I see a lot of Canadian license plates here on the weekends, maybe I could cut you a set and send it back with one of them :rolflmao:


The tubing is 1/16" wall 304L SS 1.5" O.D.

I'm going to use these new 3/8" laser cut flanges for now. I love the Fargo, ND site. I've got every one of their HOW-TO videos, as well as others. The 3 flanges I have are strong, and because of their shape, I don't think they'll warp, when being welded. The top bolt 'holes' are slotted to handle expansion, and the bottom mounting holes are really slots to allow for slipping the header onto the bolts. I'll post a picture of them over the weekend.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #8 by Stormin' Norman » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:47 pm

More progress on the Header modelling. I went and got more of those 45 degree joints, but only to fit inside the PVC tubes, not outside. Whatever I don't use, I can return.

Since the exhaust ports are square, and the end elbows are round, I set up my table saw with a 60 tooth blade and squared them off to fit. If they were a bit sloppy, I stuck some electrical tape to tighten them up.

I had some cardboard mailing tubes (1-3/8" and 1.5") and cut them to fit in the other exhaust ports to get a sightline to the collectors.

Now maybe its my linear brain, but I like this looks a lot better than the wet noodle pipes:

Image

Image

Image

Image

The PVC tube cuts nice and clean on the table saw, and I do have a metal cutting blade for it too, but I'll likely tune up my bandsaw to cut the stainless tube, and my Makita belt grinder, in a jig I made to use it as a beltsander to cleanup any rough cuts or set the angles more precisely.

Unless there's some mysterious reason why not, as I've got this laid out, the end pipes will pass behind the others, closer to the block, but still 5" away as they travel downward. The rear pipes have to travel forward anyway to clear the starter length (so I can repair or replace it), and that will allow a good size curve, back into the top TRI-Y collector.

Any comments are welcome...
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #9 by 1986F150six » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:52 am

Very innovative! Definitely thinking outside of the box! :thumbup:

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #10 by CoupeBoy » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:58 am

Looks great, the pipes really give a better feel for the overall shape that the header will have when you are done.
The wires never really did it for me, and I thought it was because I was spatially challenged.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #11 by Stormin' Norman » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:15 am

CoupeBoy wrote:Looks great, the pipes really give a better feel for the overall shape that the header will have when you are done.
The wires never really did it for me, and I thought it was because I was spatially challenged.


I am spatially challenged! :nod: :mrgreen:

I did the wires to approximate the bend lengths, and guess-timate the curvature from the block, to stay within a reasonable distance from the AC, the fender well and K-member, and the block/starter. Amazing how the C4 Fill-tube would constrain the space down below, to keep a decent distance away from it. Why do I like a stick-shift?

I'll get more done today, I hope.

Got almost all my NOS coil spring insulators on the way. Just missing the top ones for the new front coils, but I'm waiting for California to wake up, and order them (also NOS).

Really been lucky finding suspension parts. The heavy duty rear coils seem to be fading into non-production (Moog 8599), but I found them in Canada, and no shipping charges! RockAuto's prices are far better, but the freight is horrible! $91 USD$ 150% more than the springs! I've saved a bundle from their site, for other bits and pieces, but the springs and shocks and struts were too costly to ship into Canada.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #12 by Stormin' Norman » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:19 am

1986F150six wrote:Very innovative! Definitely thinking outside of the box! :thumbup:


I sometimes work myself into a box, but I think this will work out nice. I'll get some SS rods to weld to the top of the center tubes to mount the heat shield, and use SS wing nuts to hold it place. At least, that's the plan. :beer:
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #13 by JackFish » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:36 am

Lookin' good Normy! :thumbup: :nod:
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
Yup, I bought another one.
1996 Chevy Caprice 9C1 (3)
1999 Dodge Ram 2500

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #14 by Stormin' Norman » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:41 am

JackFish wrote:Lookin' good Normy! :thumbup: :nod:


Thanks Andy. I'll keep the model in case you want to do it. :beer:
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #15 by Stormin' Norman » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:41 pm

I thought I had posted the pics of the 'heat shield' and my original engine bay. CRS hits anybody over 40 - Can't Remember S anything!

The heat shield is just an aluminum perforated step. Air can still move around and cool things off. Handy for tuning 3 carbs. :mrgreen:
Image

I meant to post this pic to show how much space there is for the collectors. The C4 fill tube will be gone, so there's lots of wiggle room.

Image
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #16 by Stormin' Norman » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:14 pm

I do a lot of widgets and jigs for my various hobbies and tasks on the house, our custom-built furniture and special kitchen hardware and gadgets, as well as my shop and car. That makes me a qualified packrat. :nod:

Anyway, I didn't want to experiment with my 1.5" stainless tubes, and looked up in between the basement joists, for some metal tubing and I found a floor lamp post tube exactly the same as the stainless tube. AND I found another cardboard mail tube that slipped over it like a snug glove. I know the No 1 and No 6 ports are the challengers in this project. No 1 because I don't want to move the stock AC, and No 6 because it has to leave enough space from the above the starter, and curve back into the collectors.

So the question I was tinkering with is how can I make a segmented 90 degree port exit? Then I found a couple youtube flics to mark and fabricate tubing and light gauge channel, even a couple on making tube bender components from wooden parts. Also found one on a product made from magnetic plastic sheet called Wrap-It. Only that won't stick to non-magnetic stainless. So I cranked up my table saw, after making sure it was square to the blade and the mitre gauge was accurate, to cut the cardboard mail tube at different angles. Then I marked off a section of the lamp tube to cut on my band saw tomorrow.

Nice straight-on view of a 200 Cylinder head!
Image

My humble bandsaw (It was made by Ryobi for Craftsman) needs a few tweaks after I change the blade.
Image

Also found a nice clear picture of 200 I6 with the same AC unit, and estimated the space at 7/8" between the intake manifold and the AC compressor. Don't know if it came from a FordSix member, I got it from an Image Search via BING.COM.
Image

That allowed me to clamp a chunk of 3/4" wood and see if my plastic piece could come out from the bloc a bit more and still leave room to let incoming fresh air run in between to keep the AC in good shape:
Image

This is the marked up lamp tube, and my assortment of tube marking 'tubelates'. I did one for 30, 45, 22.5, 11.25, and 5.625 degrees.
Image

Once I test this tomorrow, for bending angles, I'll tack it together, and form it into the flange to see how much it distorts (round plug into square hole).

Here's the youtube links I'm using to guide this experiment:

Tube Bender With Hardwood Wooden - Wood Die
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bktdn-ZFIvg

How to fabricate a swept 90 degree bend in cable tray - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEy-Wue-gPc

Wrap-It-Cut Magnetic Welding Templates
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ5efBsjY5Q

How to Seamlessly Join Two Pieces of Pipe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTdVq8x0l58

I used the 11.25 degree template to draw on the steel tube. I had to reverse it to mark the opposite cut. So each notch is a 22.5 degree cutout, making 4 gradual bends to add up to 90 degrees. I may have to do it over with the 5.625 template to make the notches only 11.25 degrees, if it doesn't make for a smooth enough curve.

I'm an engineer, so Form, Fit and Function are more critical than curvaceous grace. :twisted: My wife takes care of that addiction. :lol:
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #17 by xctasy » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:21 am

Some other photos fyi. Ford did a massive amount of engineering work to integrate the A/C, and ended up copying the 1965 factory air with the Foxes.

Samrt move, I think.

I personally love the big 4-1/2" cast iron monstrosity header Ford made for 1981 to 1983. Since the Fox battery allows no space for anything except a custom header if your not going to go to a repositioned A/C pump, its my only option.


Options aside from reworking the header are
Left Hand A/C,
low mount GM Harrison Frigidaire A6
or even lower mount Sanden.


The alternatives are major, and it makes a custom header a great first option!

( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=67303&p=515209#p515209 )

First was York/Tecumseh upright (later branded as Motorcraft)
Later Right Hand Side
Image
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5 ... 00x450.jpg
Image
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-A4d3nL97RcE/U ... G_5634.JPG
Early Left Hand side

Image
http://www.pilgrimage.us/mustangshow/DSCI0645.JPG
Image

Repeat of Aussie Falcon 250 log head A/C which was the same as US early 200

Second was the GM Harrison Frigidaire A6. They swapped the alternator and air pump positions in 1978 on the Granada, but it stayed 200 style like on this 1977 Monarch.
Frames 6 of 12 and 7 of 12, showing Hidden Low mount 1977 250 with early low mount compressor
Image
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/0 ... met-sedan/
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/0 ... met-sedan/
The 78 Granda with GM A6 A/C
Image

Third option,

are Sanden 503/507/508 or SD5H14 retro fit for the York/Tecumseh, which is even lower than the GM Harrison Frigidaire A6 and found standard in later Australian Ford Falcons/Fairmonts/Fairlanes/LTD's from 1985 onwards, and Utility pickups till to about 1992

Image

My Falcon engine has one like ZC Cruiser's

Mike1157 made significant progress on Serpentine version, aka Jeep 258, for our 200.


Images have dropped off the web, but York/Tecumseh upright (later branded as Motorcraft)

Image

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=67132
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #18 by Stormin' Norman » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:53 am

^^^ xctasy, I really enjoy how thoroughly you research your info! Thanks for the variations and links.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #19 by xctasy » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:42 am

Stormin' Norman wrote:
Also found a nice clear picture of 200 I6 with the same AC unit, and estimated the space at 7/8" between the intake manifold and the AC compressor. Don't know if it came from a FordSix member, I got it from an Image Search via BING.COM.
Image

That allowed me to clamp a chunk of 3/4" wood and see if my plastic piece could come out from the bloc a bit more and still leave room to let incoming fresh air run in between to keep the AC in good shape:
Image



I got 1.1" with my earlier small log. Thats 28 mm in French.

Image

Image

7/8" sounds right for the big Dog Turd.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #20 by Stormin' Norman » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:28 am

^^^^ Yeah I think there's some wiggle-room on the AC. I figured it was 7/8", without modifying the mounting holes on the AC. Also noticed that the angular brace back to the front of the block has a short 'slot' opening to adjust the bracket, maybe 3/16" inch movement.

I'm shooting for a 3/8" to 1/2" clear space at that one exhaust port. The only other 'tight one' is Number 6. with only about 5/8" to 3/4" above the starter, and enough room to pull it forward when it has to be replaced, but that gets handled when I curve it backward into the collector.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #21 by Stormin' Norman » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:13 pm

Nope! I'm not under a snow bank, other than a bunch of other immediate details I had to get done, to get back to this delicate project.

These are fabbed up from regular steel tube, identical in size and thickness to the 304L Stainless tube that the final header will be made of. I had to do it this way, to clear the stock York A/C compressor at Number 1, and allow about 3/4" cooling air space between the top and end of the starter. That space will also allow me to add a heat shield if I see that the air space isn't enough.

Number 1 and Number 6 parts will get a cap welded in and smoothed over that 'corner' cut. I cut it at a 45 degree angle at 1.5" from the inside corner, to maintain the correct diameter. The exhaust port itself is square on 1, 2, 5, and 6. while 3 and 4 are rectangular, so any exhaust 'congestion' will happen early in the gas exit to the mufflers. The stock manifold is much narrower inside, and every port is at 90 degrees, except 3 and 4. So I don't think it will have much impact on performance.

Feel free to correct me on that, but I'm not shooting for much more than 150 HP with the 3 Carter YF, YFA carbs and a better cam. I doubt I'll ever run it up to even 4,000 RPMs. Its a daily driver, with a bit more OOMPH!

Image

Image

Image

Image

I watched the video on http://www.stainlessheaders.com/index.aspx and saw how he fit the round pipe into a square flange. It will fit nicely.:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u234 ... _1_6_5.jpg
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #22 by Stormin' Norman » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:37 am

Well I got a green light on my mitered header ports. The Header company CEO has been following my progress on the StationwagonForums site.

http://www.stationwagonforums.com/forum ... hp?t=29338

He donated the main parts to this project, out of his own pocket, and he's been guiding me through it. His handle is The Premier.

Hi Norm, actually that is pretty neat! If you are going to mitre some of your bends as you go, then cutting the tip off to clear your A/C like you have will cause next to no issues unless you were chasing every pooftenth of HP you could possibly make. I doubt that this small modification would even show up on an engine dyno on a stock engine either. But remember though, if you are still going to bend this part, the outside radius will also be shaped similar as there will be no tip similar to the mitred joint you have created that you will need to contend with. Also 3/4" is absolutely more than enough clearance from your compressor. In my experience, 10 mm or 3/8" is more than enough.

For a first timer, you are travelling ok! Cheers Mike.


I'm now gonna get into the Stainless tubes. Its still too cold to work bare-handed outside, in the mornings, because I have to finish welding the front end back together and get the engine in to finalize the header pipe locations down the side of the engine.

I'm pretty good with gas welding and brazing. I'm also ok with regular, old school arc welding. I'm fairly new to MIG welding, and could probably handle TIG welding, but I've never welded Stainless Steel, so I've been practicing and learning like a sponge. Mostly here: http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

His YouTube channel is awesome!
https://www.youtube.com/user/weldingtipsandtricks

And some other sites describing the heat range limits for SS, so I'm gonna take it as far as I can myself. I'll probably use gas welding and MIG welding, with the right rods and 308 or 309 stainless wire.

I saw some really old school racer pictures a while back using steel conduit pipe for their lake headers, all mitered up, before Mandrel Benders made their way into the Header industry, and I figure with a Long Tube setup, that I'll overcome any small power losses.

I'll post my progress as it gets done. :beer:
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #23 by Stormin' Norman » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:30 pm

Started fabbing the Number 1 and 6 port stubs out of my 304L Stainless tubes. The wall thickness is actually 20% more than the initial trial steel tubing. Pretty pleased about that.

I also do some fair quality hardwood stuff, but I don't have room for a decent belt sander, so I made up a jig to hold my Makita belt sander and do some wooden edge strips. Turns out it can handle Stainless steel tubing facing perfectly too.

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The parts are numbered by exhaust port, from the flange downward:

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The exhaust manifold face on the head is at a 35 degree angle, so the horizontal parts have to get the downward 22.5* angle offset off the centerline of the mitered corner. I did take all the measurements, but I didn't use them. Instead, I eyeballed them using my cardboard tubing patterns and marking the correct location.

My bandsaw isn't useful for cutting the tubing, so I cleaned off my Bosch table saw underneath, and got all the sawdust out, then changed the saw blade for a 6" metal cutting disc. These blades wear out at about 6 tube cuts per 1/4", but they're cheap enough to buy, and replace.

I also have a miter saw, but its up on the top floor for cutting partition studs and there's too much wood and saw dust up there to control away from metal sparks. The table saw does a fine job on miters, since I tune it once a week when I'm into woodwork.

I thought about buying a metal chop saw, but they get awfully pricey, for cutting discs, and are overkill for these small tubes. The 2 HP motor handles it nicely. I'm using 3/32" thick cutting discs. I do have 1/8" discs when these wear down too low for the tube at about 5.75" diameter. I'll use these for flatter light gauge metal and aluminum. No cutting fluids, just slow and smooth.

I'll weld them up tomorrow, once I finish getting the engine bay dimensions with the engine in there.

I might get the Header done by next Monday. Once you start, you get a bit less timid about proper angles.

I'm starting to enjoy how its coming together. :nod:
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #24 by Stormin' Norman » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:25 pm

It was warm enough to drop the engine back in and proof out my ideas, as well as take some measurements. We've got freezing rain and snow today, and the rest of the week is down to -12C (15F) at night (meaning SLOW warmups in the daytime to -1C (30F).

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I still need to set the collector location more firmly and nail down the starter positioning. I haven't relocated the bellhousing locator pins for the SROD yet, so I'll fake it with a block plate that I made before finding a steel plate last fall. The next post deals with EQUAL LENGTH tubes.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #25 by CoupeBoy » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:37 pm

Looking good, but if you aren't going full out for every HP available, how important is having same length runners really going to be?
Did you have an automatic before? (wondering why you have to move the dowel pins)
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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #26 by Stormin' Norman » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:41 pm

On V8s, V6s and V12s, everybody agrees that Equal Length is the only thing to do, but on I6s, its a different story. Now, I understand why it was suggested to make 18" to 24" tubes. They should be equal length on the farthest 3 ports and equal length on the closer ports, but don't have to be all the same length. Duh...

Here's Burn's Stainless tech article on it:
http://www.burnsstainless.com/v-12exhaustdesign.aspx

Here's Headers by Ed's comments on Equal Length tubes:
http://www.headersbyed.com/hc_buildbetter.htm

So for I6s, I could make them equal on 6 or by front 3 and rear 3 cylinders, but Ed makes a good point of the tuning issues, which would get complicated with a tri-power carb intake.

So, instead of reinventing the wheel, I'll go for equal length on all six, mainly by pushing the collectors further under the firewall, and closer to the transmission mount. I don't want all those curved bends shrinking the space for both AC and Heater coolant hoses.

With the flanges and collectors, my Aussie friend also posted some pics of a 3.3L dual exhaust header they made for a racer:
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And I found this single exhaust 3.3L layout:
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Since I'm installing new OE grade Moog coils, new Monroe shocks, and new Front LCA bushings, I figure the car will sit a bit higher, so if the 2-1 collector is below the floor, I'll have about the same ground clearance and it won't be that visible from the side of the car. I figure I'll be fine to run it there, instead of low, at the firewall.

If I compensated the difference in rear tube length and front 3 tube length, between the 3-in-1 collectors and final 2-in-1 collector, would that be detrimental to tuning?
Last edited by Stormin' Norman on Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #27 by Stormin' Norman » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:46 pm

CoupeBoy wrote:Looking good, but if you aren't going full out for every HP available, how important is having same length runners really going to be?
Did you have an automatic before? (wondering why you have to move the dowel pins)


Yeah, it was a C4 before. My wife grew up with a standard shifter, and has refused driving the car, since we bought it in Mexico in 1997! I prefer a stick shift anyway, so I took advantage of the situation and did a bit more 'tweaking' (tri-power, headers, new suspension, cam, etc. :twisted: )

I'll be pulling a car dolly back from Mexico with another Fox wagon in tow, so more torque at highway speeds will be a must have.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #28 by xctasy » Sun May 31, 2015 11:19 pm

Mike W did the rework of the Fox headers for 80stang and some others here. I'm sure you've seen this montage of single and dual outs from him.


Image
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The thing is that the No 1 exhaust is restricted by the A/C unit.

That's your only real pinch point. The collectors are personal, based on if you have the low or high mount...Foxes can be awkward in that respect too.

Your changes in setting the collectors back look like you've almost got this one in the bag.....Mike made one type of the single out and another type dual out headers from that batch in 2003 or so.
Last edited by xctasy on Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #29 by Stormin' Norman » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:30 pm

Thanks Dean. I got distracted on my Trac-Lok hunt for the DANA, and now that I've nailed it, I'll be on the Header, etc. I'm sure it'll come together just right.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #30 by Stormin' Norman » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:49 am

My quiet header pics follow. My dear friend and a member here - JackFish, came over to help me bleed the brakes. He did a full rebuild on his and added some oomph stuff in the build, machined head and block, cam, etc. to his 1978 Fairmont wagon. Snappy little beastie.

He couldn't believe how smooth and quiet it is. He said that none of his cars are like that.

Here's the pics. Some with comments:

The bronze rectangular thing at the bottom is a heater hose connection which also has a Temperature control valve above. there's over 3/4" of space to the AC compressor and 5/8" from the header:

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I made this for the hot air duct between the air canister and header. Works like a charm. It was almost freezing when I started her up this morning, and the carb loved it.

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In this one, I learned that a 25 degree angle from vertical would have given me more room away from the starter cable. I didn't know the stock starter for a 4 speed was longer until I bought it. :roll:


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This pic shows my DIY subframes. They hide all the under-car Header Pipes and fittings. I bought these 3/8" flanges from NAPA. and the larger ones from a local speed shop, then I used SS bolts and hardware on both flanges.


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Ugly welding, eh?! But it works.


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I listened to about 20 Youtube videos for these 200 CID sixes with different qualities of headers, mostly steel. The SS headers from Hooker Headers were quieter, than the steel ones, but not by much.


We've got a lot of young people here with their rice-rockets and all the was melted out of their ears. That may explain why Q-Tips sales are down. Mine will let me hear my own thoughts. :lol:

xctasy complimented me on the Hot Air Pickup above, and that I shouldn't hide it or the fact that I made it work with a stock AC.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... y-AC/page2

The hot air pickup is from a restaurant steamer tray -- one of those food warmer service trays in a cafeteria line up. I'll take better pictures without the air breather today. The pressure from the flexible duct holds it in place as well as 2 'SS-hooks' that just tuck behind the intake manifold. Nothing rattles.

I used other strips of that tray to make my extended grille covers over the 4-eyed headlights:

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...t-Grille-Ideas

The paper covered flexible ducts don't bend as nicely as the type in the picture. I vaguely recall scooping them off a Mustang at a junkyard.

There's a lot of advantages to this layout, and one major disadvantage.

The disadvantage, for me anyway, is that I don't have a tube bender around here who specializes in header bending. There is one that does bending for stair rails, but I'll see him once I get the car rolling this week.

The advantages are that I can use all stock parts, in there factory locations under the hood. All my refinished and cleaned up parts can go right back in. My AC and heater hoses, cables, even my block heater cord. You warm weather guys wouldn't know about those.

And I noticed that the header, angled as it is, doesn't heat up the engine compartment anywhere near what the original exhaust manifold did. The engine seems to run cooler too.

I'm very happy with it. :beer:
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #31 by Stormin' Norman » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:51 pm

Here's some details these pics won't describe.

1) All the bolts, lock washers and any flat washers are stainless steel.
2) All the brazing was with Lincoln's SS rod. I never tried to use my cheap MIG welder to do this.
3) I used HVT grey paint on the header pipes and right back to the muffler.
4) All the angles were multiples of 7.5 degrees - 22.5 X 2 = 45. 3 X 7.5 = 22.5, etc. I based it on 22.5, because that's the angle of the exhaust port face to the block. I should have done a 25 degree angle instead to better clear the Starter. I should have bought the Starter for the 4-speed and used it for modelling. It is both longer, and fatter. With an Auto starter 22.5 would have worked fine. I'm a bit too tight there. Not enough to heat up the starter, so much as room to remove/install it.

Here's the pics:


Image


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Image


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Image
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #32 by Stormin' Norman » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:03 pm

I've been driving it since April or so, and I gotta say that just the headers gives it a lot more torque. Its a stock motor, running regular gasoline. Idles nicely at 600 RPM, with 18 PSI of vacuum.

I'd like to get another set of those flanges, so I can get a local bender to make a better setup. My welding had held up nicely. I can drive in 3rd gear going up a fairly steep city overpass over the railway stockyard at under 30 MPH and still accelerate. Even the old 302 V8 needed more pedal. If these sixes reach peak torque at 1800 RPM (35 MPH), this baby moves along very nicely. Gas mileage is about 10% better too.

I think those flanges come from Australia or maybe Asia. My contact seems to have vanished. The pictures above show what they're like. Its 3 pieces. Cyl 1-2 and 5-6 are the same (horseshoe shape) and Cyl 3-4 is a solid flange. The bottom bolt slots make to easy to slip into place once the bolts are fitted in a few threads. They're 3/8" thick mild steel.

If anyone knows where I could buy a set, I'd appreciate it.

Oh, and although my tube-shaping model worked, I found a really slick way to do it better about halfway down this link:

Building Custom Headers

He uses flexible electrical wire tubing (like clothes drier ducting) and fills them with insulating spray foam to hold their shapes. Neat idea.
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.

My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

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Re: Building Fox-Body Header for Factory AC

Post #33 by xctasy » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:35 pm

I think its all wonderfull. That space saving is very important


The perenial problem has always been...an element of dis-respect. Like eveything...EGR Air Tube Bracket, Secondary AIR tubes, PCV baffles in rocker covers, Spark velocity ports in carbs, proper choke pulldowns, Heat stoves for headers. Proper emissions hook-ups.

There is no reason why we should have to resort to A/C or alternator relocation, or removing an Air Pump or power steering unit to fit a header or 2V/CI/VI head. None.

Q. How do I mount headers with A/C or a 2V/Classic Inlines/Vintage Inlines head?


A. The perenial problem has been the disrespect from suppliers over how to accomodate as stock passenger side York/Temumseah/Motorcraft A/C unit.

Answer One. You can't have the stock A/C unit...it has to be relocated if you have a header, or 2V/Classic In lines head.

Answer Two. You can't have the stock A/C unit....The only other A/C answer is pikesan's Alan Grove bracket, modified with longer standoffs, and swap the alternator and A/C positions.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19664&p=548680#p548680

Answer Three. You can't have the stock A/C unit... The "Eric the Car guy"'s low mount Sanden A/C kit from his Youtube video. The a/c and alternator positions are swapped.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2I0c-j ... vs&index=2 at the "Dealer Add-on" A/C unit at 17:19 to 17:24 mark.

At the 5 to 6 minute mark on both videos, you'll see the "alternate" alternator position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L22GsHQ ... t7JJ_QSZvs




http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... er-circuit
xctasy wrote:Image




As thay say in Scottish, yer nae' s'posed ta see that... that's the also 1979 to 1992 Falcon cross flow XD/XE/XF 3.3 and 4.1 Liter Sanden A/C unit position. It still doesn't get you or anyone header space unless you swap the battery to the drivers side (plastktanker's aka Turbo 83's, and EFI 86 onwards battery swap kit before he put the battery in the trunk..) as there is still another 10 Centi French Units or 4 Imperialist Knobies of space needed for the alternator, but its possibly a step in the right direction. In your case, a low mount A/C unit might freeze in inclement weather anyways...

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?169210-I6-serpentine-belt-conversion



And the wires. On my Nissan and my Toyota, they don't even color code the Celica GT4/RAV4 AWD wires or the replacement ABS sensor wires.

The Electrical and Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual is an example of how North Americans are interested in respecting the people who actually service there rides.



Comparing one to the other

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Its just I got 1.1" with my earlier small log. Thats 28 mm in French.

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7/8" sounds right for the big Dog Turd.

Those 22.2 System Internationale units cause so many headaches for Small Ford Sixes everywhere.


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When designing my Fazer end plate, the whole thing was the 3.188", 81 mm from the blue referenace datum that Mike and I used, to the edge of the EO/E1 log, about the same as the 2V/CI head edge. That's why I copied people who looked at the 2V log head adaptor plate in the early days.

Can't remember who did this, but it was all due to space limitations

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RickWrench

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=74022&p=569060#p569060

also did some simliar work on the whole issue of log to ancillary relationship, but cut-off-log-ectomy.

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Youre work is great SN, keep it up.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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