'Mostly' stock 170 whp expectations

62Cometman":3lqzmi57 said:

Hey david, quick question since im sure your endless knowledge has a reasonable answer. I was "gifted" a ford 8" from a buddy from a 63 fairlane 500. If i were to build up a 250 with a cam, lots of head work, exhuast, upgraded dist., and a good 2 barrel, do you think that 8" would be enough still?
I know ill have to shorten the axle tube to fit and all that, but i was more thinking that the torque wouldnt be too much for it.

Thanks for any help , Darrian

Click to expand...

Yes, plenty strong enough...

Howdy Back:

Yup, as Rich already told you. but, do you know what gear ratio in in the 8"? It should have tapered axle tube on the brake ends, which will help with mounting. Have you measured the width yet?

Keep it coming.

Adios, David

I just measured the housing and I'm coming up with 58" which is way off of where I need it to be, but I also noticed that the ends aren't tapered at all?

Could this be a 9" instead I've never actually taken out the chunk and checked for myself.

Hump on the back plate of 9 inch not 8
Nut @ ‘7:00’ can’t B removed is 9 inch, all can on 8
9 inch is a lill flat on top, 8 is rounder all over

Generally:
U want the 8 in a sedan/coupe
(I take the 9 in my "truck")

Howdy Back Darrian:

Since it was not original in a '63 Fairlane it probably got there from some other donor. Not having tapered axle tubes is not much of a problem. You would have to replace your U bolts with the larger one for straight tubes. Shortening the axles and tubes may be expense and trouble than it is worth. But sure worth a close look. And if they don't work for you they are trading stock for someone else. If the tag is still attached that will be the best clue in IDing it. If not look closely for stamping. Maybe????

Anyway, keep it coming.

adios, David

"...taken out the chunk…"
if U mean what's the gear ratio? a spin of the tire after
a chalk mark on each the DS & wheel can determine that.
No need to decipher a tag (often missing on a 50 y/o + vehicle)
or run down stampings on the axel housing. If U have either
THAT can help w/ IDing an antique, but I think as David's said
the gears can B changed out...

Yeah i wish i could find a early 70s maverick to get a rear from but the 2 'junk' yards in my area are short in that department :x

Trying to source one from out of state might be more than the cost of modifying the one i have. I also dont have the room to widen my wheel width by that little extra bit my bigger tires already like to rub as is

Not sure if it matters anymore but Im betting you put 65-75 hp to the ground if you were to actually put it on a dyno and grab some numbers on that all stock/freshened up 170. Its not much but itll make the car roll. Like said a couple times before, find a 7 main 200 or 250 even. freshen up the bottom end, stab a decent cam in it with a good 2 barrel and you might double that HP #. Toss a turbo on that and you will double your already doubled figure LOL. Its all about what you want out of it. I kinda miss the old near stock days and hope to one day have a little Falcon with a fresh 200/250 with big log head, header, Duraspark swap and thats about it. Simple and reliable.

Matt

Thanks matt that was more the numbers i was looking for, I know its not a lot but these cars are surprisingly light and doesnt take much to make them feel quick.

End goal is a decently built 250 with a 4-speed and 8 inch rear with at least front disc's but thats about 10 years off looking my current financial situation :roll: oh well im just trying to get it back running and then i can take my time changing everything else over if i like.

"...Trying to source one…"
Cometman -
try car-parts dotcom (logo @ top of their page:
"175 million car - parts") just 4 giggles, U might B surprised.
Matt -
I got an ol friend at "Dunmier Hollow" in M.boro.
Ever been out there?

Chad, i have perused carparts.com but most are relatively far away kinda sucks being in Lincoln, NE where nothing ever happens, also shipping a full rear end isn't cheap hence the thought of modifying the one i have might be more simplistic in the long run.

i suppose if cars were easy everyone would be working on them right?

PM sent -
(I hope)

Didn't get it chad.

62Cometman":1fjkhwj1 said:

Hi all, I was hoping those of you with more incite might be able to answer my pondering question. I have a mostly stock 170 getting a mild rebuild with new rings bearings head mill .040, NOS headgasket, upgraded 1100 carb and dual outlet exhaust. Now this engine previously ran ok, cylinders 2 & 5 seemed to have a slight miss but after a slight valve job and 2 NOS pistons I should be back in action. I was hoping someone might be able to give me an estimate on expected whp ranges. I'm running a rebuilt 2.77 3 speed with a stock 3.10 7.25 rear. This motor is from a 62 so it does have the adjustable rockers and I'm still running the stock cam as no one that I've found, other than a custom grind from Schneider, has a cam for the non hydraulic motors .

Also does anyone have any idea of what the suggested Rev limit on this motor should be? I previously didn't push it much past 3,500 rpm and that was usually only on the highway when I felt very, very, brave and/ or needed to get around traffic.

Thanks for any and all help or suggestions.

Click to expand...

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=69983

gb500":1fjkhwj1 said:

powerhouse 170 ci:think its about 45 hp at rear wheels

Click to expand...

Brett is a very smart guy. I'd say the gearbox losses are very low, about 25%. And that the rear wheel horsepower with igntion and air fuel ratio optimized would be 55 hp

The solid lifters raise rev range, as does its short stroke crank and long rod ratio. The stock 240 degree cam is worse than useless, and its drops the rev range back to 3500 usable revolutions per minute.

All 144 and 170 should have gotten the standard 1962 Windsor 221 cam, the 252 degree cam with about 370 thou lift. But it was wound back to 240, and the rated net flyhwheel horspower was about 70 hp net, quoted as 105 gross. Adding the later cam (a NOS 4.1 liter camshaft from a 1975 to 1980 L or C- code is 259 degrees and about 400 thou lift or near offer, and its the best Ford cam for these engines because you can adjust the ideal setting for ideal torque.


Another point. Although the little log C1 cylinder head you have is the worst for peak flow form carb to intake port, as its has 1.3" ports, 1.3" log hed carb hole, and a tiny volume, it does have vey nice, small chambers with got flow into the cylinder, and good exhaust flow. Its the chamber that improve flow, just like the old closed chamber Cleveland and Boss heads did. They have some potential. In my 81 Mustang, I used the earlier C1DE 6049 head from a 1966 XR Falcon 200. It flows nicely, and didn't hurt power compared to the EODE 6049 head of the later cars. That was because the compression ratio was half a point up with this head, and the flow figures with a raidiused/chamfered intake port with no water cooling gave good improvements, just like the old days of 1967 Hot Rod magazines Horse around with a Mustang installment. Ak Miller lumped a much better flowing 200 cfm carb on a 200 cube six with this kind of early 52 cc head. Normally, the 1.3" hole in the log head is like mouth blowing water from the bottom of a bucket with a foot long hose....but the head does like good carburation.


So 55 hp at best.

Well anything is better than nothing i was just hoping for maybe a little bit of extra power, though i haven't driven the car in so long i don't remember how fast it was to begin with

Howdy Darrian:

Back on Jan 26th you said, "The car will most likely be a weekend cruiser and occasionally take "small" trips like 100 miles or so to a show across the state." Given that, and your current mods of a Petronix Ignitor in the distributor and a 1100 carb from a 200, along with a compression increase will make for a very nice weekend cruiser. No need for a "big" rear end, and the 2.77 non-synchro three speed, while the weak link, will hold up nicely so long as you take your time shifting and fully depress the clutch.

That said, IIWIYS, I'd be looking for a late sixties exhaust manifold with a 2" outlet and a donut gasket. That along with a 2" exhaust system will make a nice improvement for right now and will be good foundation for when you get the future 200 ready.

If you're like the rest of us, you can't leave well enough alone. If you're always looking for the next tweak or improvement, but budget and reality hold you back, plan for some things you could do now that will fit into your "Down-the-road" plans.

Another thought along this line, although more expensive, is a set of 1.6:1 rocker arms. They would raise your valve lift to about .370" as compared to .348" stock. That would add a nice flow boast at all rpms. And you could swap them onto the "Down-the-road" 200 later. Another plus of the hi-lift rocker arms is that they are an easy bolt-on.

You also asked earlier what might be the rpm red-line on your engine. Do you have a tach in the car? If you do I'd be very curious as to what peak you're getting now?

Keep it coming.

Adios, David

Thanks for the reply david,
The motor is getting a dual outlet 2 inch exhaust and some glasspacks, i do have a tach installed in the car but havent ever pushed it much past 3,500, partially because the power isnt really there and also because it sounded like something was ready to grenade in the valve train

If you haven't finished your head rebuild yet besides pocket porting and minor porting work it's worth it to open up the carb inlet to at least a 1 3/4 inch opening or more this will allow you to use some of the bigger Carb's in the future too and then you could also upgrade to a DuraSpark II ignistion to unlock some more performance. If you take the time to carefully fit one the center port dividers that could unlock a few more horses too. Good luck

62Cometman":1r2j38on said:

Well anything is better than nothing i was just hoping for maybe a little bit of extra power, though i haven't driven the car in so long i don't remember how fast it was to begin with

Click to expand...

I think one of the best things you could do that's fairly cheap is get a new cam(and lifters). Something like a 256/256 w/ .420" lift will wake that engine up along with the other things you're doing. Is the cam solid or hydraulic? If solid, maybe the smallest one schneider or clay smith makes, or a custom grind. It cost the same either way. They're all "made to order". Whether it had 70 hp at the wheels or 50, if you can give it 15 more it's a lot % wise and you will notice it.

While i have considered porting the heads that a skill i don't currently possess and don't exactly want to go through a "trial and error" period where i could potentially make things worse, if thats possible. Now as to the Dist. upgrade since i have the first gen ford 6 it has the 1/8 oil pump drive basically limiting me to using a original dist. for the vehicle though i have upgraded to a pertrnoix unit and flamethrower coil.

Id love to add a cam but im already further into this project then originally planned, and suffice it to say that ill save my money and time for other parts of the vehicle i want to upgrade or maybe the next iteration of the drive train.