Water Pump Whine?

Hello All, I've got a 62 Comet 144. I put a rebuilt water pump on about 500 miles ago. Everything was good. Lately, I'm getting a "whine" that also occasionally sounds like a screech, but mostly a whine, like a jet engine ramping up! I thought it was my 50 year old generator, but it was not. The WP is not leaking, and everything otherwise works well. I also first thought it was the fan belt, but new belt didn't fix it either. Just more info, I noticed my rad cap does not hold pressure, but it runs cool and has good fluid. It's really hard to nail down the source of the noise, even with stethoscope, and putting it against the WP hub isn't even the loudest spot. Any ideas? Thanks, Chris

Chris,

How loud is the whine/screech? Have you tried removing the belt and running it to make sure it is in the pump? Is it at idle or under load?

Kevin

Ok....Desparation time! Ran the engine with no belt (no generator or water pump). Can't pinpoint, but sound is still coming from front of the motor--seems to be amplified through the road draft tube. Makes a sort of whine while idle, but screeches with load applied. Sounds like a really bad belt, but it's not of course. Starting to think all sorts of crazy things--crank bearing, cam bearing, etc. The crank pulley seems to be in one piece and not separating. The timing set and front seals were replaced last summer. For the past 500 miles, all has been well--just started recently. The engine has never been rebuilt except for a valve job...it supposedly only has 39k, but of course it's still old. Help! Chris. (I've thought of flushing the engine in case oil passages are clogged)

Distributor? Oil pump?

Eliminated distributor with stethoscope...oil pump did cross my mind this evening. Need to look up what they sound like when they go bad. Thanks

glad 2 C U have 'stethascope'! so may already rule out my idea of < ac clutch >. When ppl say intermitant "screetch" reminds me of that.
Sorry no ideas but bottom end bearings (ur "road draft tube" comment).

Thanks for all the thoughts--keep them coming. No A/C in this car (62 Comet). In fact, the noise is present with the fan/water pump belt removed. I can't think of any way to test the oil pump other than pulling the distributor and spinning the pump with a hex shaft. For now, I may just run some "Marvel Mystery Oil" through it, flush it, and hope I loosen up some crud or open an oil passage. Oil pump would be a bugger, almost easier to pull the motor than to jack it up, drop the pan, and work from underneath.

Hi, early distributors have a little cap so you can lube it with a squirt can. If it is is very front maybe the timing chain is rubbing the cover. Good luck

Thanks, B Ron--I did in fact lube the distributor, but that just gets the shaft, and this is a louder sound than I think a dist could make. Timing chain is plausible, but it is virtually new, and has worked fine for 500 miles. Can we upload sounds on this site?

I had a suspicion that the noise would be there after the belt was removed. If it is worse under load and you have oil pressure, the next thing I would do is remove the spark plug wires one at a time and see if the noise changes. By doing this you are trying to isolate a particular cylinder. I am betting that you have a bad rod bearing, but without being able to hear it, that is just a guess. If you can't get a video to upload here then put it on Youtube and post the link.

Kevin

Thanks, Kevin, I'll try that this evening. I always thought a rod bearing would give a knocking sound. This is a whirring sound with screech under load, but I guess if the bearing is turning, or has a dry/worn spot, it could be that. This is the 'infamous' 4-main block...

My bet is on the oil pump. A google search yielded: "A failing oil pump will create a whining or whirling noise. Failing oil pumps will also have several other loud noise that will accompany it, such as a overly loud valve-train and bottom-end assembly."

Do you have a real oil pressure gauge? I would proceed very cautiously if it may be the oil pump and/or a bearing(s). The screeching could be from insufficient lubrication/pressure under load. Put that stethoscope to the oil pan.

Well Guys, Tonight the whirring and screeching continued. At super-low idle, the noise will go away, but anything over about 500 rpm the screech comes back. The screech cannot be heard with a stethoscope on the pan, but a clicking can be. I put a quart of Marvel mystery oil in--no change. Then I put in a quart of engine flush, so now it was 2 quarts over full, and the noise went away. Maybe at that point the bearings and/or pump were submerged in fluid! I drained it all and changed the oil and filter--noise back. It doesn't look good...

Is the engine sludged up?? Is the noise coming from the front valve cover area?? Dry rocker arms being starved of oil??
Loose timing chain rubbing the timing cover??

The sound does not seem to be coming from the valve train, no noise up top. Seems to be coming from the lower front area. The head was rebuilt and all the valve train is open and clean. When I had the motor out, I put in a new timing set. I cleaned all the visible sludge when the engine was opened up. I'm leaning toward oil pump..maybe wishful thinking, as it would be easier than bearings, but I'll probably still need to pull the motor. I'm tempted to get a good 200 to drop in, but you just can't go down to your local auto parts store and pick one up like you used to.

Were you able to isolate the noise to a particular cylinder? Were you able to verify oil pressure with a mechanical gauge? Have you pulled the valve cover to verify top end oiling? Are you sure that the noise is not coming from the bushings in the distributor? A spun rod bearing will make a horrible screeching noise. I personally would not give up on the 144 without tearing it down first to see what you have going on.

If you really want a 200 look on Ebay for Ford 200 Inline 6 engine and search by nearest first. There is a rebuilder listed in Grand Prairie selling dead stock 1981-1984 long blocks for $989.00 or best offer. I tried to post the link but it wouldn't copy across. These would have the good head but you may run into an issue re-using your transmission IIRC.

Kevin

Thanks for the research, Here's what I know concerning your questions:
1: I pulled plug wires one at a time--no difference
2: I do not have an oil pressure gauge, all I know is the idiot light doesn't come on
3: The valve cover was removed, it is getting oil up top.
4: I oiled the distributor shaft through the little opening provided, but it was working fine when I installed it 500 mi. ago

There is a well-respected shop in Denton, Tx, which told me it would be in the neighborhood of $1200 to completely do a short block (the head was done recently). If somehow I can narrow this down, though, it would be great if all I needed was an oil pump.

don't go for an engine just for a noise.
have it properly diagnosed by trusted/respected source.
If it started after some work was done it's a good bet the last work (done improperly) created the prob.

try the h2o pump again after a mechanic has a go. Give him no more info than the h2o pump being just changed. 4 all I can tell it's the head bolt rubbing the impeller.

Chad, I appreciate your input--I know this thread is getting long, but earlier I mentioned I've run the engine with the fan belt off--the water pump not turning at all, and still noise. I'm actually the person who worked on it last, and for 500 miles, no problems. I'll probably end up pulling the motor (I can do it in about 45 minutes now!) and inspecting it. If it's an oil pump, I won't go for the rebuild, since it runs fine and doesn't use any oil.

Just a thought, but when you put on the new timing chain, what kind did you put on? Could what you're hearing be the oil slinger? There are a couple folks on here who installed the double-roller and the oil slinger, only to find out that the thickness of the double roller caused the slinger to get chewed up. I nearly made the same mistake but disassembled, removed the slinger, and re-assembled before I did my first start.

I don't know why you wouldn't hear it at first but do now, but this is just a thought. good luck!