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E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

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StarDiero75
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E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #1 by StarDiero75 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:54 pm

Howdy guys,

I just talked to a guy today about having him do the work on my 1980 200 head and he quoted for a rebuild and doing the 2bbl conversion was $2100, about 30 hours. Does this sound right? If thats the case I might as well go and buy the VI aluminum head.

So I have a dremel, and basic mechanical skill, what can I do to cut down the majority of the head work? I would prefer to get this down to more like $1000 or less.

The guy and I will be keeping in touch so we can discuss what I want to do. The one thing he wasn't crazy about what that its got the huge hex log rather the flat top. I plan to use the adapter from VI for the autolite/holley.

Let me know what you all think,
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:46 pm

:shock: :wow: sounds like quite a lot to me plus thinking about it a little more I don't really see it taking 30 hours of work either! How much is the charge for a three angle valve job with back cut and surfacing? Edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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StarDiero75
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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #3 by StarDiero75 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:47 am

bubba22349 wrote: :shock: :wow: sounds like quite a lot to me, plus thinking about a little more I don't really see it taking 30 hours of work either! How much is the charge for a three angle valve job with back cut and surfacing? Edited

Thats what I thought too. So that was for the whole thing. He lumped it all together and said probably 30 hours. After I get the plate from VI and meet with him again, I'll ask what for soley the conversion. I'll have the normal machine work done at NAPA instead. They got me on fleet haha.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #4 by mustang6 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:33 am

Wow that is a lot! It's been years since I had this type of work done and machine shops are disappearing all over the place but I still think that is way high. The last one I had done, they took the same machine they used to mill the head surface and ground off the carb mount down flush for me. Then with a dremel and drill and tap (and a little JBWeld for a small low area), I was able to finish mounting a Holley 2 bbl adapter to it myself. All the machine work cost me $350. I think the equivalent in today's dollars would be $500 or so.
Scott

68 Mustang 200 ci, Aussie 250-2V head, Dual Headers, Comp Cams 252H, DSII w/MSD 6AL, T-5, V8 suspension.

65 Ranchero 200 ci, late 170 head, Autolite 1101, 3.03 3 speed, Maverick 8" 4 lug rear with 3.55 gears.

Georgia200
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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #5 by Georgia200 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:22 am

A few months ago a guy sold a 2v conversion head ready to bolt on with rocker shaft for $900 on ebay. I should have bought it.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #6 by rocklord » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:12 am

Georgia200 wrote:A few months ago a guy sold a 2v conversion head ready to bolt on with rocker shaft for $900 on ebay. I should have bought it.


The seller is 1hotvega. He doesn't have any of the converted heads on eBay right now, but you could contact him and ask to do one for you.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #7 by StarDiero75 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:28 pm

rocklord wrote:
Georgia200 wrote:A few months ago a guy sold a 2v conversion head ready to bolt on with rocker shaft for $900 on ebay. I should have bought it.


The seller is 1hotvega. He doesn't have any of the converted heads on eBay right now, but you could contact him and ask to do one for you.

Isnt he the one I've been seeing that people say stay away from him? I think he sold someone a completely rebuilt engine and the block was cracked or something.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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StarDiero75
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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #8 by StarDiero75 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:32 pm

mustang6 wrote:Wow that is a lot! It's been years since I had this type of work done and machine shops are disappearing all over the place but I still think that is way high. The last one I had done, they took the same machine they used to mill the head surface and ground off the carb mount down flush for me. Then with a dremel and drill and tap (and a little JBWeld for a small low area), I was able to finish mounting a Holley 2 bbl adapter to it myself. All the machine work cost me $350. I think the equivalent in today's dollars would be $500 or so.

I'll see if i can have the NAPA shop just machine it down and I'll cut it out with a dremel. I cant afford $2100 or anywhere near that. I was hoping for about $400ish. That to me seems a little more fair. But the guy and I will talk a little. I think obviously he wants the whole job. But thats still high.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #9 by 63falconATX » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:16 pm

I expect to get ripped for this but honestly if I was dead set on doing this conversion on that budget and did not have access to a mill, I'd get old school with it. Assuming you were planning a JB/Lab Metal job, this can all be done with hand tools, straight edges and level/angle finder.

You'll still need the valve work and planing(deck side) done at the shop.

For the conversion I'd get that thing setup on a very sturdy flat work surface so you can establish the pane of the adapter from the stock carbon mount. It is not parallel with the head right, Keep the head in that position for the duration. That angle never changes. Hog the bulk off with the angle grinder, open the inside with a carbide burr and establish the new plane with some good files and a short straight edge.

I'm still waiting for a large log to fall into my lap and plan on exactly that with the exception that I have a mill. However I am confident one could accomplish good results with hand tools. The way my father and grandfather would have done it.

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E0xxx head "2v Conversion" (C tech archive: pic, technique)

Post #10 by chad » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:58 pm

lotta ol timers did 100% of what we now call 'machining' by hand (files, etc) on their 'Flatties' (1st bent8s)
so they could go racin. Imagine hand wrk on a cam, valves, etc...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #11 by StarDiero75 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:25 pm

63falconATX wrote:I expect to get ripped for this but honestly if I was dead set on doing this conversion on that budget and did not have access to a mill, I'd get old school with it. Assuming you were planning a JB/Lab Metal job, this can all be done with hand tools, straight edges and level/angle finder.

You'll still need the valve work and planing(deck side) done at the shop.

For the conversion I'd get that thing setup on a very sturdy flat work surface so you can establish the pane of the adapter from the stock carbon mount. It is not parallel with the head right, Keep the head in that position for the duration. That angle never changes. Hog the bulk off with the angle grinder, open the inside with a carbide burr and establish the new plane with some good files and a short straight edge.

I'm still waiting for a large log to fall into my lap and plan on exactly that with the exception that I have a mill. However I am confident one could accomplish good results with hand tools. The way my father and grandfather would have done it.

This may be the route I'll go, so don't worry about getting ripped lol. I'm not afraid to tackle anything. Worst case scenario, i screw it up and look at cutting the whole log off and go that route. I just gotta go slow.

I'm gonna get the adapter and talk to the guy again and see if he'll quote me on soley the head stuff, i csn do the exhaust ports and all. I'll keep you all up to date.

Thanks for the input man!
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #12 by drag-200stang » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:08 am

Can you post up a link or pic of the adapter before you buy it...I would like to see if it will work for you or against you, a scratch build adapter may work out better in the long run.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #13 by 63falconATX » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:45 am

if a scratch one is needed, get me the critical dimensions/back of napkin sketch and I'll do(donate) a CAD solid model for you to get quoted.

drag-200stang wrote:Can you post up a link or pic of the adapter before you buy it...I would like to see if it will work for you or against you, a scratch build adapter may work out better in the long run.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #14 by StarDiero75 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:12 am

Heres the adapter im looking at

https://www.vintageinlines.com/product- ... on-adaptor

I can design my own adapter in solidworks. I just don't have a CNC to make it.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #15 by drag-200stang » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:47 am

That adapter looks like it would work, but if you center it like they did and look at the pic that upper left corner is filled with braze, that wont work well if done with epoxy...Epoxy will work great to fill low areas that will be compressed between the head and the adapter, that spot is to large and can be pushed in...If you slid the adapter some to the front to avoid cutting through the side of the manifold it would be better...Also if you try cut the head to get the stock tilt (or level as installed in car) the metal will be to thin, maybe split the difference and some in the manifold and the rest cut from the adapter after bolted down...Or drop the front of the car :wink:
A adapter that you shape to fit the manifold and the carb would give you better control over a good sealing job, when using epoxy to fill low spots.
Just trying to give you things to think about.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #16 by 63falconATX » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:20 am

drag-200stang wrote:...Also if you try cut the head to get the stock tilt (or level as installed in car) the metal will be to thin, maybe split the difference and some in the manifold and the rest cut from the adapter after bolted down...


The log is already tilted with respect to the head(to level the carb), why would the cut need tilting?

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #17 by drag-200stang » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:38 am

63falconATX wrote:
drag-200stang wrote:...Also if you try cut the head to get the stock tilt (or level as installed in car) the metal will be to thin, maybe split the difference and some in the manifold and the rest cut from the adapter after bolted down...


The log is already tilted with respect to the head(to level the carb), why would the cut need tilting?

Then why is the carb pad higher and thicker at the rear than the front ?...Some people would complain if its not at the factory angle saying that the carb has to be perfectly level,but who knows how it is as in the car..I do not think that it is a big deal ,I like mine tilted forward as I am always accelerating so then the fuel will be level :wink:
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #18 by Econoline » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:35 am

The carb mount is somewhere around 3 degrees tilted from crank centerline. It isn't parallel to the log either.
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #19 by StarDiero75 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:17 pm

So I found out a friend of mine actually has a small mill and CNC. So i could design my own adapter plate and have it machined and hogged out at his place. He'd be willing to do it all for like $50. I think im gonna go that route and help him out with it
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #20 by chad » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:23 pm

63falconATX wrote:
drag-200stang wrote:...Also if you try cut the head to get the stock tilt (or level as installed in car) the metal will be to thin, maybe split the difference and some in the manifold and the rest cut from the adapter after bolted down...

The log is already tilted with respect to the head(to level the carb), why would the cut need tilting?

B'cuz the miller's bed is flat/plumb & the surface being milled (where h. gasket goes) is flat/plumb. They R mated for the pass. Cutter (on other hand) can B made to place in the 'pitch'.
Last edited by chad on Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #21 by mustang6 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:37 am

So I found out a friend of mine actually has a small mill and CNC. So i could design my own adapter plate and have it machined and hogged out at his place. He'd be willing to do it all for like $50. I think im gonna go that route and help him out with it


Score! Now you will have total creative control of what you do on that intake. If you get real creative maybe you can adapt the Ford inline 4 bbl carb... :mrgreen:

Image
Scott

68 Mustang 200 ci, Aussie 250-2V head, Dual Headers, Comp Cams 252H, DSII w/MSD 6AL, T-5, V8 suspension.

65 Ranchero 200 ci, late 170 head, Autolite 1101, 3.03 3 speed, Maverick 8" 4 lug rear with 3.55 gears.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #22 by StarDiero75 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:19 pm

mustang6 wrote:
So I found out a friend of mine actually has a small mill and CNC. So i could design my own adapter plate and have it machined and hogged out at his place. He'd be willing to do it all for like $50. I think im gonna go that route and help him out with it


Score! Now you will have total creative control of what you do on that intake. If you get real creative maybe you can adapt the Ford inline 4 bbl carb... :mrgreen:

Image

Oh lordy I don't even know where to get one of those. That may be for another project idea I got. I got a 63 170 head that I'm gonna cut the log off and do my own intake, that inline 4bbl would look sick. Side note and a little off topic, can i put the large 1.75 valves in the 63 170 head? I'd obviously want to optimize it.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #23 by mustang6 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:20 am

I was kidding- I was just excited you've got a friend with a mill. While those carbs do exist they are so rare I think they would cost more than a complete engine rebuild for one of our sixes. Can't help but wonder if one could be adapted though....
Scott

68 Mustang 200 ci, Aussie 250-2V head, Dual Headers, Comp Cams 252H, DSII w/MSD 6AL, T-5, V8 suspension.

65 Ranchero 200 ci, late 170 head, Autolite 1101, 3.03 3 speed, Maverick 8" 4 lug rear with 3.55 gears.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #24 by Georgia200 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:10 am

A 2V on our head is mounted 90 degrees out, so you want the base to be as level s possible.

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #25 by woodbutcher » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:55 am

:hmmm: Just taking a real WAG on the inline 4 bbl,I`m thinking in the real high four figure to low five figure price range.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
"People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election".
Otto von Bismarck

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #26 by Soldmy66 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:00 pm

woodbutcher wrote::hmmm: Just taking a real WAG on the inline 4 bbl,I`m thinking in the real high four figure to low five figure price range.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo


If you found one and wanted to buy it - I think you would have to put it in escrow - they are as rare as hen's teeth and priced accordingly.

rwbrooks50
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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #27 by rwbrooks50 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:38 pm

here a line for more info on the inline 4 barrel:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thr ... or.159245/

Rick

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Re: E0xxx head 2bbl Conversion

Post #28 by Soldmy66 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:09 pm

Porsche' used to use a pair of three barrel webers on some of the high performance pancake 6 engines.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/235721.jpg

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