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College Senior Design Project for the 200

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StarDiero75
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College Senior Design Project for the 200

Post #1 by StarDiero75 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:48 pm

Howdy guys,

So this is a little off of what we nornally talk about.

So here's my thought, if there a way to cut the log to where we can get some sort of sealing surface on it to mount an intake by drill and tapping it, could an aftermarket intake be made for out engines keeping the stock head?

We may be getting a senior design project that makes up come up with a patentable idea. I believe this could be a neat patentable idea. I have a spare 63 170 head that I'm not gonna do anything with, so we could practice on that.

Is this something i should consider trying, or is there no way to do that with the log. I'm trying to come up with an idea to where it's not all that difficult to fix our heads. All that would be required would be a mill to cut back the log to a point, maybe some filler to raise some places, then a resurface.

Let me know,
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

frozenrabbit
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Re: College Senior Design Project for the 200

Post #2 by frozenrabbit » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:52 pm

Maybe not unless you can come up with a DIY, bolt on at home, easy way to do it without machine shop work.

Even the Offenhauser triple carb conversion is beyond alot of people, and that's just a couple holes drilled in the log.
Last edited by frozenrabbit on Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pmuller9
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Re: College Senior Design Project for the 200

Post #3 by pmuller9 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:01 pm

Here is a good example
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=74307

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Re: College Senior Design Project for the 200

Post #4 by tdlund » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:53 pm

Here’s a couple pictures of some hacking I did on the mill
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chad
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Design Project for the 200

Post #5 by chad » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:11 pm

I. Lynx style Oz 2V intake & some runner options for several carbs (side draft, down). I think U can look at a thread "X" just asnwered for a guy thinkin re 3 x 2v on our i6. I been ta Oz, England & USA lookin 4 one & they stopped makin em (for the USA head). It's ur lop da head idea - plenty here a'bouts, no more lynx...

II. SFI the VI intake...the bosses R there. U'd hafta lookit depth of hole, which injectors, etc. Talk to the guys here who came up w/the rest of the system (all but the cpu I think) trigger wheel, dizzy block off, timing etc).

III. A T3/4 turbo (is this p.muller's suggestion?) at 5 - 10psi. Design the intake/eehaust 'loop' and holder 4 turbo, what carb, draw thru system, where is each component, name each & pts source/exact model blow off valve, etc. Make a sketch any guy could use to DYI the system on his own rig...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: College Senior Design Project for the 200

Post #6 by cr_bobcat » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:58 am

I actually have a small log head at the machine shop getting the whole side of the head cut off. The guy said he'd do it for $100. Once I have it back, I'm going to start taking measurements. I'm going to take a sheet of plexiglass to start laying out an adapter plate design. I have a 3x HS6 Lynx intake (p/n M060). I'm also going to try to source a Aussie 250 2V intake so that I can get mounting holes in the correct place for that.

The goal is to have mounting options to accept multiple commercially available intakes and exhaust manifolds/headers. I'm hoping to do this without needing any custom made parts or require commercially available part to be modified. Once I have it laid out in plexiglass, I'm going to transfer it to a steel plate and get it all machined up by a buddy of mine.

Right now, the adapter plate have to be something that would be welded up, but it might be something could could end up being cast.
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

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chad
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Design Project for the 200

Post #7 by chad » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:20 am

get'er done Cat!
Luck B wid ya!
(I'd suggest bolt-ons (like drivetrain adapters rather then welds.)
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: College Senior Design Project for the 200

Post #8 by JackFish » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:36 am

While you're at it, how about a turbo manifold like you can get for a diesel.
I have one of these on my Cummins:
Image
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
Yup, I bought another one.
1996 Chevy Caprice 9C1 (3)
1999 Dodge Ram 2500

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StarDiero75
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Re: College Senior Design Project for the 200

Post #9 by StarDiero75 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:43 pm

Ouch, after seeing the pic of what the inside looks like it doesnt look like I'm gonna have really any sealing surface for it. I was hoping for more.
You're right frozen, the 2 extra holes in the intake are out of reach for most people. Shoot.

The turbo manifold is a better idea. That can be done. I like that idea. We could honestly probably do that easier too. But what kind of turbo would we use to base off it? To make it mass produceable, we'd need a popular turbo that people would use on the 170, 200 or 250. Pmuller and I were talking about this on the turbo page. We could base it off the G25 or G28 turbo.

Hows this idea?
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: College Senior Design Project for the 200

Post #10 by cr_bobcat » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:35 pm

Chad - I should have been more clear. Only the adapter would be welded together. The goal is something that is bolt on: assuming you've milled the log off the same way I do and drill and tap the appropriate holes in the head.
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

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Design Project for the 200

Post #11 by chad » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:52 pm

sure, sure, all can B done w/internal / external fasteners like adaptors use, no?

Time 4 some CAD or 3D sketches frm Ryan to C if so....
:thumbup:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Design Project for the 200

Post #12 by StarDiero75 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:05 pm

chad wrote:sure, sure, all can B done w/internal / external fasteners like adaptors use, no?

Time 4 some CAD or 3D sketches frm Ryan to C if so....
:thumbup:

I'll see if we get the patent project. There are about 7 groups, and we each get a different project. If we get the patent one I'll whip some up
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: College Senior Design Project for the 200

Post #13 by bubba22349 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:24 am

X2 as far as cutting off the log I think cr_bobcat has the right idea. In my opion so many of the log ectomys go too far where you will also need to build some kind a custom intake too, but that's ok if you want to build some thing different. But if you follow the lead of what Ford Australia did in the 1970's for the 250 2V heads it could be a much simpler and faster job. By only cutting the log off in the right place then using a 2V intake gasket (or the V.I. One) making a 1/4 inch plate to add to the intake ports you could use any of the readily available 2V intakes from the stock Ford 2V intake to any of the aftermarket ones including the C.I. / V. I. Aluminum head versions with slight modding to the head plate. I was planing on this same route also, Marco was gracious enough to send me some pictures of his Aussie 2V head and stock intake. There is no real need to ever touch the exhaust flange other than maybe a light clean up cut as ther are so many good exhaust headers being made already for them. If I could figure out how to post them from my emails I would. Good luck on your project. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: College Senior Design Project for the 200

Post #14 by xctasy » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:19 pm

Ford USA adaptoed Volvo avargage bore spacings on the 1974-2001 2.3, 2.0 and 2.5 engines, but the Pinto 2000 had 4.017" bore spacings. Ford decided to use the same intake design, so they made a progressive adaptor to fit the bigger bore spacing engine to the smaller bore center intake manifold.

Have a look at the turbo 2.3 engine pictures in the turbo post, Ryan.

Ford did the exhaust adaptore to the Cleveland 351C, with a Hi Port conversion.

Both ideas are how I solved the port mismatches on the log head and 2V engines. I studied those, and then I made a triple downdraught 4412 Holley 500 cfm carbed intake adaptor. Its very much like the one in this post. https://www.fordsix.com/memberlist.php? ... file&u=130

#17 by xctasy » Thu Oct 05, 2006

xctasy wrote:
Stubby wrote:You lost me a couple of times. You said IR then you said run on the center carb until sorted then add the others.

I'm looking at isolated runner at very low revs. The better Triple Weber D-type Jags and DB5 Astons and even Charger R/T E38's have a magically refined low speed amble when in high gear, despite big cams over 280 degrees. So some kind of spin off from the Offy style progressive linkage, with an ability to run all carbs below 1200 rpm, but just the centre from 1200 to 2500 rpm, and then back on all three from 2500 to 4500 rpm should work really well.


So, you are trying to build a progressive/IR intake?

If the Webers are capable of running in IR configuration, then they will be easier to tune with a plenum?

I have also considered an IR setup and the Holleys are priced right. If the blower and turbo guys can reference the power valve to boost, couldn't we keep the power enrichment and activate it some other way than manifold vac?



Image

Image

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/ ... engine.jpg


The intake manifold has three carbs mounted like the ones above.

At idle, they run all three, independent runner. The log has two flapper valves isolating the three carbs.

Then above curb (kerb) idle (1200 rpm), the flapper valves open up, and the outer carbs drop out of the circuit. Above 2500, its back to independent runner, triple carbs, with the flappers shut.

In this manner, the centre carb runs most of the time, runner high vaccum. Under low vac conditions, it can run richer.

'How' the two flappers operate to convert it from log to isolated is subject to patent!




Its a mixuture of Datsun Z, AMC~Jeep 258 and Argie ME 188/SP 221 elements, with a custom exhaust, custom intake, and everything sawn off.

The Datsun, Ford small six, AMC-Jeep 232/258/4.0 liter intake valve sequence is the effectively the same, despite 3.76/3.937 bores pacings on the Datsun, 4.08" sapacings on the Ford, and 4.375" spacings on the AMC~Jeep.

How it all fits to a log head is very simple and avoids studding it like 64FastRanchero, 67 Straight Six or welding it like all the others. No welding or studding should be your goal.

The Argentina ME 188 and SP 221 are free of the awfull down turned exhaust which does so much to make the US 144-250's Mission Impossible to Modifiy. And free of the Australian 250 2V's crazy shifted out, space wasting intake that makes it very hard to fit three carbs into even a 200 engine bay.


Image

IMHO, the South American Argentina Ford guys got it right first time for simplicity. I told the late Mike W to just make an adaptor to fit the Australian intake to a stock sawn off log head, but he went 100% copy of 2V without an ME/SP to 2v adaptor.

The options are to 2V a log head

Image

Image

Image


Or mate the 240/260/280 Z(X) intake spacings to the log, and use a derivation of its exhaust as well.

Image

Image


The more you do all that, the more the Argentina Exhaust competition fabricated exhasut header lookes like a better option


Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: College Senior Design Project for the 200

Post #15 by xctasy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:06 am

Don't give up on this one Ryan! If you can think mirror image, or backwards, you can lick up a really good intake using cast off parts.


I've been intimate with the turbo Z18's and L26's and Diesel LD28'S. They all share the same front and rear cylinder 3.76 or so bore spacing, very close to the Kent 1200/1300/1500/1600 engines, last used in the early US Pinto base model and the 1979-80 US market Ford Fiesta.

Datsun and Nissan parts are great quality and awesome bases.

A great thing... the cars were renown rust buckets, worse than the most rust prone Mopars!

A lot of Datsun stuff was ALSO used by Ford via its purchase of 25% of Mazda in 1973. (Mazda and Datsun owned the gearbox company Jatco. Like the Jatco 3 Speed automatic gearbox for 250 Granadas and 1800 cc Ford Courier pickups, and later on, Nissan Pathfinder CFi units on in line Australian Ford Falcon sixes from 1988-1991, they were Nissan Motor Company designs).

Ford USA looked very closely at the Datsun stuff, and Edsel B Ford II remarked in 1980 that the Early Bronco and Ford Falcon based 2 door study of 1968 were the cars that Ford should have used to lick the Range Rover/Nissan Patrol and Datsun 240 Z world wide. Ford decided not to do anything but 289's, 302's and 351's, the in line sixes were always door stops and inventory fillers.....so the multiple carb in line six wasn't really an option pursued. The US aftermarket via Offenhauser, Clifford and Wain in the realy days, had done a lot of twin 2 and 4-bbl inline six intakes, and they give great results, they just didn't ever fit into Fords V8 ambitions.


See viewtopic.php?f=84&t=80331


DoctorC wrote:Ohh! Perty!
Wish i could bolt one onto the 200!




The Datsun L24/26/28 engines all have a close to Ford Falcon six port sequencing, despite the intake being on the other side.


Image




Image


The common 32/36 Weber or Holley Weber 5200 adapter version of the twin Hitachi 1.5" intake can be used on a Ford Six. Even a 4-bbl adapter can be put on the Datsun Intake.


Search "TWIN DGV DOWNDRAFT WEBER 32/36 SUIT L24 AND L26 DATSUN 240Z 260Z", and you find this:-


See this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?edufilter ... S-lbNyLF20

See the drivers side mounted slanted OHC L26 in this car. It has the common twin 2-bbl 32/36 Weber intake adaptor.

To that, two 4-bbl adaptor can be added.


Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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