Traded 71 Bent 8 Pinto for a 80 inline 200 Mustang

Well, you guys have had quite an affect on me this last year or so. I traded my 1971 5.0/T-5 Pinto yesterday for a 1980 3.3 c/4 Mustang Notchback. I have been contemplating building an inline six car for some time now. I like the fox chassis, with the rack and pinion steering, strut front suspension, and coil spring rear suspension. I also like the wide availability of parts for the chassis. My plan is to build up a 200/ T-5 and turbo it or spray it. I plan to race it. This is my 4th car with a 200 in it and I swear they are virtually indestructable. This is my 6th Fox chassis car; 4th Mustang, a Fairmont and a Zephyr(which I still have). The debate was to swap the Pinto for a Fox chassis car, or a Turbo 2.5 Dodge Caravan. I currently have 2 Dodge Caravans. I really like them too! So, it looks like I finally got inline with the 200 Mustang. I've read "The Ford Falcon Six Cylinder Performance Handbook" about 10 times now. Heck, I even let my subscriptions to "Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords" and "5.0 Mustangs and Super Fords" run out. I was a subscriber to both "5.0 Mustangs" and "Super Fords" when they were two separate magazines!!! I still get Mustang and Fords magazine, and have been a subscriber to it since it when it was just Mustang magazine. Anyway, I'll quit babbling on and thank you guys and gals(I know there's a few of you out there) again for such an awsome forum. Any more updates on the Crossflow 200 Jack?

Darrell

welcome!

ummm.... most "newbies" ask for advice on what they should do, you didn't and this is confusing me...
but i confuse easily

anyways, i'll say that you should turbo, just cause you'll always have the turbo instead of only sometimes with the Nitrous

Sorry about confusing you. I know this is only my second post, but I have been reading this forum every day for more than a year now. I was reading it before it switched over to this forum. I have 3 extra 200's and a 170 that used to be in my '62 Ranchero. I tore apart the 170, even cutting the log off of the head, just exploring like some of the other people on this forum have done. I've built and raced 5 different 5.0 Ford's in various cars, and built a half dozen more for friends, along with a 5.0(305) '78 Malibu, and a 300 six in a '65 Ford Truck. I still have visions of a built up 300 six/T-5 in a 32 Highboy. That's probably why I have been so interested in following Jack's Locost Roadster. This little six has interested me so much, because the bottom end is so rugged and there has been so little in the way of experimenting with various combinations of cams in it.

Darrell

s'ok, like i said, i get confused easily, if you hang around long enough (which i think you might) you'll get used to me

like i said, welcome!

Welcome to the madness, I've had my 80 inline stang since 1990.

Thanks you guys for welcoming me. Kev, what rear gears do you have in your 80 Stang? I haven't looked at mine yet. I have had in the past, a '79 2.3 turbo/4 speed, an '83 T-top 5.0/T-5, and an '86 LX originally with a 2.3/4speed, then with a 5 speed, then a 5.0/c-4 and then a second 5.0. I had a '79 Fairmont 2 dr w 2.3/4speed and currently still have a '78 Mercury Zephyr. The Zephyr had a 3.3/C-4. I messed the engine up in it almost 2 years ago. It was 16 degrees outside and the oil light came on. I wasn't going to walk the rest of the the way to work( 1.5 miles) in 25 mph winds unless the engine seized. It took another 15 minutes in all of the traffic, and later I drove it home(5 miles) with no oil pressure. Now you know why I am amazed by these engines!!! It will still run, but I've put it to rest!

Darrell

Hello.

The 80 Fox is a great chassis for a little six.


If you want minimum hassles, make a plate adaptor as per my diagram in the Driveline forum. The idea was to mearly allow a US SBF auto bolt up to an Aussie Six, but in fact it would be ideal for a 5.0 T5 to fit a US 200 if you re-did the bolts to fit the big bell or small bell pattern they had. A WCT5 has much nicer ratios than the NWC T5 found behind the 2.3.

There is not a lot of engineering in it. I've started cutting up my Aussie 200 crank which has a 2.75" spacing crank flange. You just take the back flange off a spare crank, ream out the threads, and trim it to about 600 thou, use some Caterpillar bulldozer bolts to hold the flange on like a new flywheel. This allows you to put a new spacer on the bellhousing to turn the four bolt block into a six bolt block mounting. There's a little bit of detail to it, but its really simple.

With your transmission able to take a pounding, then you could just look at bolting a turbo on to the existing Log headed six, you could keep the catalyst, and just run a set of dual pipes back to the rump of your steed.

The head, a street cam, and block could take a huge amount of boost while still passing emissions. The carb could be replaced with a Holley Weber 5200 blow through as per 2.3 normally aspirated, but with some simple modifications. Once pressurised, you could open out the 25 mm primaries to 30 mm by fly cutting, and the 26 mm secondaries to 31 mm the same way. The choke could still be auto via a safegaureded electric set-up which won't shut under 9 pounds boost. The jetting could be changed by a carb specialist, and bench marked against a stock 200 I6 of the same year. the fuel pump would have to get a rising rate, and the adaptor drilled with 1/8 th holes, and boost referenced. Some electronic distributors had a advance/retard function, which would allow the ignition to be taylored to suit.

Under such a senario, the car would run lean under low boost, and then run nice and rich at wide open throttle. I'd say you could get 200 hp easily. The real thing is that if the stock head is used, and then boosted, it will make allowances for the poor porting. Anything over 200, and you'll have to look at a twin Holley Weber 5200 set-up.

Late Log sixes have emission considerations to deal with. The XF Alloy head AIT Turbo set-up, modified to fit the 200 block, could pass the 1980 emission tests with ease if you maintian the air pump. 275 hp legally is a distinct possibility!

Boy, 200 HP is a long, long way from the 80+ HP mine makes now!

Sure is. So is 245 hp net from a 9 port Holden 202 with just three HIF6 carbs and no turbo, and a stock cast iron dual outlet header!

All are possible if you are able to work on the induction, cam and exhast. The head is in fact pretty good, flow wise.

In Aussie, a little 1500 cc Nissan coulds have its hp doubled using just a DMT Weber 34/36 and a small turbo with an intercooler and 9 pounds boost on 9:1 compression. 77 kW at the wheels verses 38 kW!

Welcome Super4ord. I have a straight six '80. My term as mayor ended last Thursday, so I'm expecting to make some progress on my carbed turbo 200. Still assembling stuff.

Xecute

I currently have 3 fresh V8 T-5's to use. I have 2 ea 1990's and a 1983. The Mustang currently has a small bell C-4 auto. I haven't checked the rear gears yet. The 200 in it seems pretty tired. It did stumble and run pretty bad when I brought it to the house. I did drive it here though, about 25 miles. The guy I got it from put a new carb on it. He had the vacuum advance for the dizzy hooked up on the wrong port. The dizzy cap was corroded bad too. I swapped the cap, rotor and plugs. Amazing, what a difference that made!!! The plugs were new, but way too cold of a heat range. I adjusted the idle, but haven't checked the timing yet. I'll get that done, do a compression check, check for vacuum leaks, etc. this week. The radiator was only half full of water, and the oil is a quart low and very dirty!!! I did get the engine cleaned up at the car wash yesterday. It'll be nice to work on it without getting covered in oily dirt. It has a decent white paint job with dual black lemans style stripes up and over the car, and finned GT wheels with good tires. The steering is very tight and the brakes work good. I had it up to 70 mph yesterday on a checkout cruise. I'm quite pleased with the trade. I'd like to get it tuned well and check everything out on it, then weigh it and do some baseline drag strip runs, then start the transformation. I'll probably drive it the way it is for a while and build up one of the other 200's I have. I did check out the driveline forum. I'm pretty sure I want it to be a 5 speed instead of a C-4. I do have a couple of spare C-4's too, including a street/strip one I built for a 400 HP 5.0. It has about 8k miles on it street and strip combined. I guess I need to figure what gears combos to look at that would be best for drag racing with a 5 speed. I definitely plan on using a turbo. I wonder how well Jack's Xflow conversion would stand up to 15 to 20 lbs of boost? I'd sure like to try and see!!! I'm not worried about the bottom end. I'm convinced they are very rugged. Not real worried about emission stuff here in Oklahoma. The smog pump looks like it has been gone for years from the car. It does have that big exhaust manifold (California style I believe). I do have a couple of the regular 49 state style exaust manifolds, if needed. This car is not my daily driver, so I can work on it without having to get it back together to go to work. I am really excited about it. I guess I have a lot of decisions to make about whether it should be injected, carbed, draw through, blow through, what type of intercooler, cylinder head, cam, rear gears, etc. WOW!!! Well, give me your input guys!!! Later!

Darrell

Graeme

Just wondered what made you decide to go carbed turbo route? Is it simplicity, lack of dealing with electronics? Availability of parts? I have been seriously considering using the Buick 3.8 early carbed turbo set up. Is this what you were thinking?

Darrell

IMO EFI multiport injection with timing control - something like Jack used on his 250 crossflow from SDS - is the best way of going with a turbo 200. The problem with higher boost on a log head is fuel separates from the air at cylinders 2 & 5. The fuel keeps going to cylinders 1 & 6 leaning out cylinders 2 & 5 (basically the fuel can't make the sharp turn down the port). These two cylinders (2 & 5) ran hot scuffing the rings from excessive heat from the lean mixture. The other 4 cylinders looked fine. Multipoint fuel injection would solve this problem. Also, you are able to retard timing as boost pressure goes up. If you don't control your fuel mixture and timing correctly with too much boost I don't know how much it takes, but I bent rods twice on cylinders 2 & 5 that were compressed 1/4 inch down the bore. I went to custom rods & forged pistons. This was at 26 lbs boost from too small a turbine housing. I was unable to control the boost with the wastegate fully open. Start large then reduce as necesary. The 200 really responds to turbocharging. The intake ports are fairly large for the size of the engine and the smaller exhaust ports just keep flow up for the turbocharger. A TO4B V1 trim with a mild cam, 1.5" exhaust valves, free flowing air intake and exhaust will make 400 hp at 15 lbs boost. Running my car on a dyno would have saved me a lot of aggravation. This was not intended to be a daily driver.

Drag-200stang

Tell me more!!! Tell me more!!! I really want to race a turbo 200. Tell me about your 200 turbo drag set-up!!! I'll go back and read about Jack's 250 EFI crossflow. I remember when he was doing the buildup and doing comparisons, before he put it in his 'stang.

Darrell

super4ord

I have a 66 mustang coupe that I built like a 70's style prostock car chassis with: 4-speed lenco with 4.86 rearend gear ratio, Mark Williams 35-spline axles, 14-32 Firestone slicks. I started this car in the mid-70's.... by the time I got it all put together it was early the 80's. Because the high compression pistons I ordered came flat tops (too low for NA) I decided to try a turbo. I bought a partial kit from Ak Miller in 1974 that consisted of a stock exhaust manifold with a T4 flange welded to it and a TO4B-V1 trim turbo. I installed a Turbonetics small delta wastegate. I fabricated a draw through manifold with a holley 600 double pumper. This carb may have been too small. The cam was a Racer Brown advertised 266 deg. solid lifter - 450 lift. Last time I was at the track the car ran 9.85 at 139mph. When I tore the engine down I still had problems with cylinders 2 & 5 after trying an intercooler. At that time EFI wasn't available at a reasonable price. I hope to try it this summer. This is not a recommendation ... just my experience.