All Small Six 170 inline six transmission help

[Fordwa]

I got a 1965 Falcon wagon 3 speed manual, with a 170 engine, just removed transmission today as I would like to put an automatic transmission any help will be appreciated on which transmissions will fit on the 170? can I use the bellhousing from the manual transmission on a c4? Please advice thank you!

 

[bubba22349]

Welcome to the Ford Six forum! The manual transmission bell housing won't work at all with a C4 or any other Automatic transmission. 1965 was the first year that the C4 was used in a Ford Falcon / a Comet or Mustang the Farlines got them in 1964 these were the early Duel Range type Auto Trans. Look for any year Fotd 200 six with a C4 (also some later 1960's and up to 1974 170's used them too) these will have the correct bell housing to bolt right onto any year short block 144, 170, or 200 six when you use all the right parts the 1960 to 1964 Small block Six 2 speed Ford O Matic will also bolt up to these engines though it's not as good of a combo compared to the C4. All years f Case Fill C4's weather used on a Six or V8 engine can fit they just need the correct 200 six bell housing block plate, torque convertor, to bolt them in.

You will need all the compleate Case Fill C4 200 six cylinder parts to do the Auto Trans Swap, this is the Auto Trans Tin block plate spacer, the small block six cylinder flex plate, the six cylinder torque convertor (has the starter ring gear welded onto it) that also matches the year of transmission you use with it ( i.e. Has correct spline count), plus all the correct hardware bolts, Trans motor mount, and all the linkages. i.e. the input spline needs to match and there are 3 different input shafts with 2 different spline counts that were used, one for the 1964 to 1969 transmissions, another for just the 1970, and another one used for the 1971 up C4's. You can use any year of Ford small 200 six C4 bell housing from 1965 to 1981. You can also use any year of Case Fill C4 the Falcons & Comets got them starting in 1965, the 1965 Mustang also used the same Trans except that it used a floor shifter. On the Case Fill C4's used from the years 1964 to 1966 these transmissions are known as the Duel Range (or Green Dot Trans) theirvalve body's will have a Gear Selector Pattern of P, R, N, D1, D2, L, the 1967 up are known as the Select Shift their valve body's will have a Gear Selector Pattern of P, R, N, D, 2, 1,.

There were many improvements made to the C4's over the beginning years too by 1970 and up they had all the best parts right from the factory these later transmissions will shift much better and are stronger than the early C4 Trans. These later transmissions are the ones I prefer to use together with a TransGo Shift Kit and a small Aux. Trans cooler. You can use one of the Mustang or Pinto Floor shifters, or an aftermarket type floor shifter. If your wanting to use the stock type Column Shifter you will also need to find the correct 1965 year Auto Trans Column Tube to fit into your car or one of the aftermarket Tilt Column's will also work but I don't think they have the shifter on them. If you use the later Select Shift C4 you can use the 1967 Gear pattern indicator mounted on the stock 1965 column, and don't forget to hook up the Down shift linkage too if you want the Trans to shift automaticly through the gears. Hope that answers your questions, best of luck.

 

[Fordwa]

Great info thank you I really appreciate it,

I have a dumb question the input shaft on the manual transmission has 10 spline, how should I determine the spline count on the c4, I am sorry for my ignorance?

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, I think the best bet would be to find a take out unit, maybe a complete drivetrain, from someone swapping to a V8.
If you stick with your engine line up the tin block plate and move the dowel pins to the new locations, and don't forget to remove the pilot bushing during the tranny swap.
Good luck

 

[bubba22349]

Great info thank you I really appreciate it,

I have a dumb question the input shaft on the manual transmission has 10 spline, how should I determine the spline count on the c4, I am sorry for my ignorance?

So you are very welcome, this is actually a great question that many people won't know answer too, here is how to ID the three different C4 input shafts.

The first Spline count on the 1964 to 1969 C4's is 24 X 24 on both ends the input shaft will pull right out of these early C4's. Also these use an input shaft that is the smallest diameter of .788 inch.

On the 1970 C4 the input shaft's strength was greatly improved by going to a .839 inch diameter it also had a 26 X 26 spline count on both ends, again these shafts will pull right out. This is a one year only design, it's a stronger Trans and is more desirable for any engine that's being built for higher performance use.

Now for the 1971 to 1981 C4's Ford changed the input again going to a 26 X 24 spline count like the theres the input shaft also pulls right out. They are the large .839 inch diameter. As with the above 1970 Trans these are even more perfered since there is also the most aftermarket support for these later C4's.

So with these above input shafts you can see that you need to use the correct Torque Convertor the early Trans it uses a 24 spline count with the smaller diameter. When checking this you can take your input shaft along to test the fit.The other later C4 transmission's will all use the 26 spline count with the larger diameter. It is possable to up grade the early Trans to this larger 26 spline count by using that larger input shaft, torque convertor and the later front pump assembly. But this is also why ts usally better and less expensive to go with the newer C4 Transmissions.

One other thing I should have mentioned before to be aware of when you are seaching for a C4 to do a swap is that there is also a larger version of the C4's that was made and used in the bigger cars and in pick ups / vans etc. These are know as the "Pan Fill C4's" these "Can Not" be used on any of the small block 144, 170, or most of the 200 six's short blocks made from 1960 to 1981, as there isn't a small six bolt pattern bell housing that's made to fit them. They will only bolt up to the 1969 to 1983 250 six engines or if you happen to have one of the very rare 1982 200 six big bell blocks that had a C5 Auto Trans originally.

Hi, I think the best bet would be to find a take out unit, maybe a complete drivetrain, from someone swapping to a V8.
If you stick with your engine line up the tin block plate and move the dowel pins to the new locations, and don't forget to remove the pilot bushing during the tranny swap.
Good luck

X2 I agree with all of what B Ron Co stated above except for this little difference that there is probably no need to move the short blocks dowel pins in this case. The OP stated that he has a 1965 Falcon if it still has the stock 1965 engine (all 1960 to 1965 Ford small six engines from the 144, 170, or 200 only had the single small bolt patteren blocks) and or if it still also had the stock 1965 2.77 3 speed manual Trans, then those manual bell housing are the exact same small bell housing bolt pattern as all the 1960 to 1981 Automatic Transmission Bell Housings used (i.e. the Ford O Matic or tge C4's). Best of luck on your swap. Edited

 

[78_200_C4]

All high starter six C4's use the small bell housing bolt pattern. The large pattern on 66+ high starter blocks is for use with the 9" clutch