1964 Econoline upgrade

[TheAardvark]

I have a 1964 8 door heavy duty automatic with the 170 in it. 100% stock from the factory.

I have nursed/coddled this baby along for the last 10 years, using it for short trips on cool days because of its overheating issues, most recently, the exhaust manifold has cracked and is leaking, so now I've decided it is time to fix everything at once.

I was thinking a frankenswap of engines from a running 75-82 Ford product with a 200/250 CI I6 would be the best bet, right? The current tranny is a C4, the mounts and everything should be the same, right?

I could use the wiring harness out of the donor car, and end up with an updated fuel injection / electronic ignition out of the deal, and maybe add in a remote starter.

These blocks should be compatible mounts and transmissions, right?

My other option is to remove the current engine, rebuild it, install a new exhaust manifold/header, add in a electronic ignition module and deal with the other issues (manual choke, draft tube, carburetor).

The other question I have for the experts is about the overheating. Should I upgrade the rad, or would upgrading to a flex fan be enough? Or even adding on an electric fan?

Thanks in advance,

Jeff
Winnipeg, MB Canada

[image]https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/205105_217892401558497_6442884_n.jpg?oh=94d6d8948922a9f35cd1236a826f8561&oe=57DF7D8A[/image]

 

[bubba22349]

:wow: that's a good looking Econoline The easiest upgrade swap is going to a 200 same external size and most are an easy bolt in. There are some late 200 blocks that are a little different though about 1980 to 82 that use a 2/3 of the SBF V8 bell. The 250's all use a full SBF V8 bell and would bolt up to your C4 by unbolting and changing to the V8 C4 bell or using the compleate 250 engine and C4 trans combo if you can find one. A 250 is more work (roughly it's an 1 inch taller and a little longer too) but with it's extra torque it would Make a better engine for your truck. None of the 200's or 250's had EFI but the 1975 up engines all had the Electronic distributors (the DuraSpark II). As for the over heating I would first look at your radiators condition might be clugged up or just worn out if it won't cool the 170 now it's not going to cool a 200 or 250. Good luck

 

[Econoline]

Being a 64 it has the stamped engine hangers, and having the C4 means it has a special, 1 year only, set of drop down stamped engine hangers. The easiest swap you could do would be to put a 200 in there. Any 200 from 64-78, or any 200 with a high mount starter, will bolt right up, basically it's a drop in replacement. Preferably get one w/ a C9 or later head and install a Duraspark II ignition system in it if it doesn't already have one. The 250 will require multiple modifications, partly b/c it's a pre-65 van and partly b/c the bell housing won't mate. I'm not sure the 250 will fit height wise in the 64 doghouse, it might. Having the drop down hangers there it probably would, but it is heavier than the 200 and with more torque would put more strain on those hangers. Better to go to a crossmember which requires more work, moving the brackets, making outside brackets etc.

A 76-83 high mount starter 200 would be your ideal engine to rebuild and swap.

I agree, have your radiator checked or replace it. The Champion 6065LD is the only direct replacement available. Other option involve using mustang radiators, but the brackets are on the wrong side.

 

[bmbm40]

That really is a great van! You must have radiator problems because my old Econoline pickup never overheated even in summer in northern NV. What rear axle ratio do you have? If you put a 250 in there you would be very pleased with the torque but a rebuilt 200 with a few mods like DSII, cam etc would be a big increase over your tired 170. Whatever you do get the DSII it improves starting, power and mileage. Its a good idea to have a member on this forum his name is wsa I think do a custom curve on it. Also get the Falcon Performance Manual it will help explain lots of things and help you put together a plan.

 

[chad]

Wow, doors on BOTH sides, mine never had that!
W E L C O M E !!! to our forum (AND site). Check the classic inlines site which kinda formed us/this one. The tech section is big and will fill you in on lota stuff. Do Not Buy from there, it's under construction.

These guys (just posted U) are in the know…
Seth (Econoline) even has the van & has spent yrs researchin & buildin…

Hey Seth! C a few kayakers around (13th - 15th)?

 

[Econoline]

You know Chad, I put a new coat of paint on the roof of the van. I didn't even bother. Took care of the pup and worked out some electrical stuff on Sunday. There was a great band downtown, but they weren't starting until 10:30 Saturday and I just didn't have it in me after a day of toil. Playing the bachelor until wednesday to. Funny thing is it was the same day as the small boat mess a bout, pull and be damned. The weather took a turn from upper 70's to cool and damp, or I would have gotten out more. Had to move the van into the garage for fear of rain. The boss was out there all weekend, had the newspaper photographer out there in the skiff.

 

[RichCreations]

I just want to chime in, I drive '65 Econoline window van (ex ma bell van) with a 200. I am running a mustang Aluminum radiator, and have zero overheating issues...

 

[chad]

You know Chad, I put a new coat of paint on the roof of the van….The boss was out there all weekend, had the newspaper photographer out there in the skiff.

While the cat's away the mice will play (U & ur dog!)

Well I'm behind them and wanna reduce the mess created by all the extraction and use pollution. I'll get my rig as clean burning as possible!

breakfree2016.org

You can see your house on international media. I'm very proud (of mostly those young women) in the vid. About 200 marchin in ur town.
And U? You're helpin w/it if U keep the mainly wooden boats goin.

22 countries, pretty good, around the world coordination!
Just hope it's not too late ~

 

[TheAardvark]

I'm wondering if my overheating problems are related to the age of the engine, and the wear level on it.

If I get a newer 200 with PCV, rebuild it, and put a header and electronic ignition on it, what would you suggest for the intake side? I've gone through three carbs on this in the last 10 years, and I'm kinda sick of them and the manual choke.

The rad was rebuilt a few years ago. I have the flex fan, it wouldn't hurt to use it, right? Also, airflow might be an issue. Was there a belly pan on these that directed air up to the rad? or at least prevented it from recirculating under the rad?

Jeff
Winnipeg

 

[TheAardvark]

Does anyone know where there is a do it yourself plan for a bellypan / wind tray for a 64 Econoline?

2nd question, are all the headers for the 200 dual output?

Last question, carburation. I have replaced/rebuilt the carb 3 times in 10 years, and it needs constant fiddling. I know, that's the charm of normally aspirated engines, but is there anything less charming? Recommendations on what will fit inside the doghouse, yet be more efficient? I remember reading about some special jetted carb as well, is that still a thing?

Jeff
Winnipeg

 

[bubba22349]

I'm wondering if my overheating problems are related to the age of the engine, and the wear level on it.

If I get a newer 200 with PCV, rebuild it, and put a header and electronic ignition on it, what would you suggest for the intake side? I've gone through three carbs on this in the last 10 years, and I'm kinda sick of them and the manual choke.

The rad was rebuilt a few years ago. I have the flex fan, it wouldn't hurt to use it, right? Also, airflow might be an issue. Was there a belly pan on these that directed air up to the rad? or at least prevented it from recirculating under the rad?

2nd question, are all the headers for the 200 dual output?

Jeff
Winnipeg

The cooling needs of a well used or worn engine are much less then that of a freshly rebuilt engine or one that's in better working condition. How was the radiator rebuilt? New core or just cleaned or was it maybe Roded out. Sure you can use the flex fan. Cooling systems are simple and there are only have a few things that can cause problems but each part needs to be working as it was designed too. Many of the headers are Dual out but there are a couple made that are single out or you can connect the dual out with a Y and convert them into a single. Good luck

 

[RichCreations]

Does anyone know where there is a do it yourself plan for a bellypan / wind tray for a 64 Econoline?

I have seen a drawing floating around for making them on the 61-67 econoline Facebook group, and on old econolines yahoo group, and yes, it had a belly pan stock (you could also likely just get a used one, they are not hard to find, though there are 3 different ones (early, late small six, late big six, you need an early)

2nd question, are all the headers for the 200 dual output?

Last question, carburation. I have replaced/rebuilt the carb 3 times in 10 years, and it needs constant fiddling. I know, that's the charm of normally aspirated engines, but is there anything less charming? Recommendations on what will fit inside the doghouse, yet be more efficient? I remember reading about some special jetted carb as well, is that still a thing?

Have you seen my build thread? I am converting my 200 to EFI/turbo (you could just do EFI using same basic hardware) Others have done similar. Due to the LOG intake, it won't be multipoint, but a TBI setup can work well.

Jeff
Winnipeg

 

[bmbm40]

Your engine could have some partially blocked water passages. Sludge and stuff in there over the years.
You can get Autolite and Carter carbs that will run relatively maintenance free for years but they are pretty old. There are places that offer rebuilt carbs that are generally reconditioned and reliable. I have a Carter on my Bronco that runs very well.
Having said that I always thought that TBI would be a great option. Easy starting, probably better mileage and no problems with elevation change.

 

[chad]

long Hx and wide use (many car companies) on the Carter YF. I feared rebuilding & folk here walked me thru it as I did it. Big deal till I did it. Reliable, simple carb. Should not have troubles w/it unless the modern hi alcohol fuels dry up in there (2 - 3 wk w/o running). IOnce the weber 32/36 is set it is good to go…a goodun 4 U 2.

Wondering if U have a shroud on the fan (or even if it's available). I found alota help from vintage-vans.forumotion.com/forum including a reference to this site (how I found it). May B a good well conducted flush (motor/radiator both at once, both directions, several times w/thermostat out & going thru heater core too?).

I think ur 170 motor is a lill tractor (heavier loads). If U want a more racy engine I think the 200 is for U. To me, the 250/240/300 is for a Truck. BUT - I need more ed-u-ma-cation too…

 

[Cali65]

LOOK at that Econoline, that thing is awesome! What rear end came in those 6cyl models? 7 1/4 inch rear end? Have you tried flushing the radiator. Flushing out the system that's rusted or clogged up with water and powder dishwasher detergent Cascade or equivalent. Dump the system and refill with water and Cascade and run it for a while making sure that it doesn't run Hot while sitting. Dump it then repeat this until the water becomes clear. An old school mentor of mine taught me this and it works great. If you worried about it running Hot while sitting put a large fan in front of it and watch the temp gauge to make sure. You will be surprised at all the gunk Cascade will clean out.

 

[RichCreations]

LOOK at that Econoline, that thing is awesome! What rear end came in those 6cyl models? 7 1/4 inch rear end? Have you tried flushing the radiator. Flushing out the system that's rusted or clogged up with water and powder dishwasher detergent Cascade or equivalent. Dump the system and refill with water and Cascade and run it for a while making sure that it doesn't run Hot while sitting. Dump it then repeat this until the water becomes clear. An old school mentor of mine taught me this and it works great. If you worried about it running Hot while sitting put a large fan in front of it and watch the temp gauge to make sure. You will be surprised at all the gunk Cascade will clean out.

Most had the 7 1/4" rear, mine has a 9", but I can't say for OP, but it is badged as a HD, which may have a 9"

 

[Cali65]

WOW, A Ford 9 inch rear end with a 170 ci in front of it from the factory!!! Makes sense with it being a 8 door service and work van. I've never seen or heard of one, was it a Canadian option only? What is the ring gear ratio of it?

 

[RichCreations]

WOW, A Ford 9 inch rear end with a 170 ci in front of it from the factory!!! Makes sense with it being a 8 door service and work van. I've never seen or heard of one, was it a Canadian option only? What is the ring gear ratio of it?

Again, I can't say for OP, or his van, My '65 (6-door window van) came factory with a 170, and the 9", it now has a 200 in it... I am not sure, but I suspect the 9" I have is 3.00:1 (kinda tall), but they also came with 3.51:1.

Mine was a Ma Bell (telephone service) van, not canadian... (canadian econolines were badged as "mercury" not ford). Again, I can't speak for OP, or the van pictured.

 

[chad]

"…170/4.11 w/9 inch…"
just like this bronk - a lill tractor
(but another diff up frnt)

 

[TheAardvark]

Yup, 9" rear end. I love these little trucks, they are head turners. Hence the attention to detailing it original, the lettering is hand painted by a local lettering artist, just they way it would have been done in 1964. The AR Torque Thrust II's are just too sweet not to have on there, and the stagger on them makes it even cooler.

I think I'm going to just add the flex fan, flush the rad, make/find a belly pan and pull the head. I have to replace the exhaust manifold anyway, so my brother in law say he can refurbish the head easily. I know the seals are leaking pretty bad (the engine is over 50 years old) and if when we get the head off, the block is in bad shape, then we will do a complete rebuild.

Would far prefer a simple single output header, but it looks like those don't exist anymore... if anyone knows where i can find one...

Jeff
Winnipeg