All Small Six 1966 mustang 3.3 clutch identification

[Zyaltr]

I have a 1966 6 cylinder fastback with a 277 3 speed transmission. My question…is there anyway to identify which clutch is in it without removing the transmission? I read somewhere that if the starter is a 2 bolt mount the clutch setup will be 9” And if is a 3 bolt it is 81/2”. Might that be true ? Any help with be Appreciated. Phil

 

[bubba22349]

Yes that is true. But I can tell you right now that all the factory stock 1964 1/2, 1965 or 1966 Mustangs with a 170 or 200 Six all came with a 2.77 Manual Transmission these will also all have a 8 1/2 (8.5) inch Clutch Assembly with the Dog Dish Stepped Flywheel.

Note that if yours has the Original 1966 Engine Block (these would have the Dual Bell Housing Bolt Patterns you can check your Blocks Casting / Design Numbers to verify this it should be a C6DE-6090- Number). In that case then you would have the ability to swap to the 9 inch Clutch and use the stronger and excellent shifting 3.03 Trans but you would need to change everything from the back of the Block. The 1967 Six larger Bell Housing, its matching Block Spacer Plate, the larger Flat Flywheel, the bigger 9 Inch Clutch, 1967 Clutch Release Bearing, 67 Clutch Release Arm, plus the Starter to a 2 bolt, the much better 3.03 Trans, Shifting Linkage, Some Clutch Linkage, Drive Shaft Yoke, Etc. it would all bolt right in. Good luck

 

[frozenrabbit]

Wouldn't a 2.77 only be a 8-1/2"? I've never seen a 9" bell housing, with a 2.77 bolt pattern.

 

[Zyaltr]

Yes that is true. But I can tell you right now that all the factory stock 1964 1/2, 1965 or 1966 Mustangs with a 170 or 200 Six all came with a 2.77 Manual Transmission these will also al have a 8 1/2 inch Clutch Assembly with the Dog Dish Stepped Flywheel.

Note that if yours has the Original 1966 Engine Block (these would have the Dual Bell Housing Bolt Patterns you can check your Blocks Casting / Design Numbers to verify this it should be a C6DE-6090- Number). In that case then you would have the ability to swap to the 9 inch Clutch and use the stronger and excellent shifting 3.03 Trans but you would need to change everything from the back of the Block. The 1967 Six larger Bell Housing, its matching Block Spacer Plate, the larger Flat Flywheel, the bigger 9 Inch Clutch, 1967 Clutch Release Bearing, 67 Clutch Release Arm, plus the Starter to a 2 bolt, the much better 3.03 Trans, Shifting Linkage, Some Clutch Linkage, Drive Shaft Yoke, Etc. it would all bolt right in. Good luck

thanks for the info. I’m thinking about a t5 conversion and I wanted to order everything I need before I pull all the old stuff off. The clutch was my only concern Because I drive the car regularly. I would do the 3.03 but it’s difficult to locate all the parts required. Thanks again.

 

[bubba22349]

Wouldn't a 2.77 only be a 8-1/2"? I've never seen a 9" bell housing, with a 2.77 bolt pattern.

Yes that is correct all 2.77’s only used the 8 1/2 in clutch and the stepped flywheel with the small bolt pattern bell housing. It is possible to use the 3.03 with a 8 1/2 inch clutch and stepped flywheel if you can locate the rare 1964 Econoline Bell Housing.

 

[bubba22349]

thanks for the info. I’m thinking about a t5 conversion and I wanted to order everything I need before I pull all the old stuff off. The clutch was my only concern Because I drive the car regularly. I would do the 3.03 but it’s difficult to locate all the parts required. Thanks again.

The 1967 up Bell Housings are very easy to get along with the larger flat flywheel and bigger clutch and the big block spacer plate is reasonably priced even for a new one. This is a worth while upgrade for any T5 swap. I am working on this same combo right now but will be using a Top Loader 4 Speed for a new build in a 1965 Mustang. Good luck of your T5 swap

 

[drag-200stang]

With as old as these cars are, anything could have been changed. Can you take some picks of the starter showing the how it is mounted to the bell housing from above and how far down the bell housing is from the top of the block ?

 

[frozenrabbit]

Most likely gonna be an 8-1/2" in there. I've got the Econoline bell with a 3.03 on my '63 170 block. Going 9" when I swap in a '70 200.

 

[Zyaltr]

thanks for the info. I’m thinking about a t5 conversion and I wanted to order everything I need before I pull all the old stuff off. The clutch was my only concern Because I drive the car regularly. I would do the 3.03 but it’s difficult to locate all the parts required. Thanks again.

Yes that is true. But I can tell you right now that all the factory stock 1964 1/2, 1965 or 1966 Mustangs with a 170 or 200 Six all came with a 2.77 Manual Transmission these will also al have a 8 1/2 inch Clutch Assembly with the Dog Dish Stepped Flywheel.

Note that if yours has the Original 1966 Engine Block (these would have the Dual Bell Housing Bolt Patterns you can check your Blocks Casting / Design Numbers to verify this it should be a C6DE-6015- Number). In that case then you would have the ability to swap to the 9 inch Clutch and use the stronger and excellent shifting 3.03 Trans but you would need to change everything from the back of the Block. The 1967 Six larger Bell Housing, its matching Block Spacer Plate, the larger Flat Flywheel, the bigger 9 Inch Clutch, 1967 Clutch Release Bearing, 67 Clutch Release Arm, plus the Starter to a 2 bolt, the much better 3.03 Trans, Shifting Linkage, Some Clutch Linkage, Drive Shaft Yoke, Etc. it would all bolt right in. Good luck

I just read Modern Driveline's info on the early Mustang 6 cylinder....so it appears that you guys are correct. MD says that if I have a 2 bolt starter it was transplanted into the car. So now would that mean that the bell housing would have to be a larger as well as the clutch and flywheel? Perhaps a 1967 or later? Forgive me if these are dumb questions. By the way the engine casting numbers are C6DE-6015B ...I go on line and decode them tonight.

 

[bubba22349]

Your Block is at least a 1966 and may be a 1967 with that Block number of C6DE-6015-B this is because of the B at the end of the Design Number. There is also a Casting Date Code on the Block and many other cast parts, this looks like a small Metal Plate with a Straight Blade Screw Head on each end, it will have 2 to 3 Numbers and a Letter (see below attachment for an example of what they look like) with that Code I can tell you the exact Day that Ford Cast that Part at the Engine Foundry.

Yes that would be correct if you have a 2 bolt Starter than you should also have a 1967 up Bigger Bell Housing (these will have the Wider Trans Mounting Bolt Pattern, a Flat Flywheel and a 9 Inch Clutch but I don't know how it would of still had a 2.77 behind it unless they made some kind of Adapter Plate for it. There were also a few of the bigger Ford Models in 1966's that got the first 3.03 Transmissions in the Car lines like a Fairlane's so they also had the Big Bells too but you just don't see them very often now days, these have the Narrow Trans Mounting Bolt Pattern. To be able to order the correct T5 Adapter plate you will need to know what the Casting / Design Number is on your Bell Housing or at least look and see if its has a Narrow or Wide Trans Mounting Bolt Pattern. Good luck

 

[Zyaltr]

Your Block is at least a 1966 and may be a 1967 with that Block number of C6DE-6015-B this is because of the B at the end of the Design Number. There is also a Casting Date Code on the Block and many other cast parts, this looks like a small Metal Plate with a Straight Blade Screw Head on each end, it will have 2 to 3 Numbers and a Letter (see below attachment for an example of what they look like) with that Code I can tell you the exact Day that Ford Cast that Part at the Engine Foundry.

Yes that would be correct if you have a 2 bolt Starter than you should also have a 1967 up Bigger Bell Housing (these will have the Wider Trans Mounting Bolt Pattern, a Flat Flywheel and a 9 Inch Clutch but I don't know how it would of still had a 2.77 behind it unless they made some kind of Adapter Plate for it. There were also a few of the bigger Ford Models in 1966's that got the first 3.03 Transmissions in the Car lines like a Fairlane's so they also had the Big Bells too but you just don't see them very often now days, these have the Narrow Trans Mounting Bolt Pattern. To be able to order the correct T5 Adapter plate you will need to know what the Casting / Design Number is on your Bell Housing or at least look and see if its has a Narrow or Wide Trans Mounting Bolt Pattern. Good luck

thanks again Bubba, I also don't understand how I could have a 2.77 transmission on it either. I'm going to try and get under it to take a couple of pics and post them for comment after Thanksgiving.

 

[bubba22349]

Sounds good that will give you answers to a lot. Have a great Thanks Giving!

 

[Zyaltr]

thanks again Bubba, I also don't understand how I could have a 2.77 transmission on it either. I'm going to try and get under it to take a couple of pics and post them for comment after Thanksgiving.

The tag at the coil is 200 - 66 - 5

5K 33-S
according to the vin it was built Nov. 4,1965

 

[bubba22349]

During my time at the Pico Rivera Ford Assembly Plant in the Mid 1970's I remember that we shut down for two weeks to get ready for the New Model Change overs in Mid July. The New Models were then being built two weeks later so that enough new Models could be in the Dealer Show Rooms by Mid September. And depending on the market Demand the Line could be speeded up or slowed down some. Not that Ford did it the exact same way back in 1965 or 1966 they could of started in like in Mid June since the Mustangs were such big sellers they even had trouble with getting enough V8 engines built too. Anyway that sure makes yours an Early 1966 Model Build.

 

[drag-200stang]

With as old as these cars are, anything could have been changed. Can you take some picks of the starter showing the how it is mounted to the bell housing from above and how far down the bell housing is from the top of the block ?

 

[Zyaltr]

thanks again Bubba, I also don't understand how I could have a 2.77 transmission on it either. I'm going to try and get under it to take a couple of pics and post them for comment after Thanksgiving.

From Modern Drivelines support page. c6oa-6394-c 2 bolt starter, late Dagenham trans 9" clutch 136 T. Is that possible with a 2.77?

 

[bubba22349]

Not likely all the 2.77's Transmissions have the Narrow Mounting Bolt Pattern and won't bolt up to any versions of the Dagenham Bell Housings unless someone made some kind of a Homemade Adapter Plate or re-drilled the mounting Bolt Holes in the Bell Housing. It would be easy to see an any Adapter Plate installed between the Bell Housing and the Trans. You certainly do have the Larger Flat Flywheel and the 9 inch Clutch Assembly so you good to go on that part. If you can take a few pictures of the Trans and its mounting to the Bell Housing that would help too. What's the Trans Code on you Cars Door Tag?

 

[Zyaltr]

Your Block is at least a 1966 and may be a 1967 with that Block number of C6DE-6015-B this is because of the B at the end of the Design Number. There is also a Casting Date Code on the Block and many other cast parts, this looks like a small Metal Plate with a Straight Blade Screw Head on each end, it will have 2 to 3 Numbers and a Letter (see below attachment for an example of what they look like) with that Code I can tell you the exact Day that Ford Cast that Part at the Engine Foundry.

Yes that would be correct if you have a 2 bolt Starter than you should also have a 1967 up Bigger Bell Housing (these will have the Wider Trans Mounting Bolt Pattern, a Flat Flywheel and a 9 Inch Clutch but I don't know how it would of still had a 2.77 behind it unless they made some kind of Adapter Plate for it. There were also a few of the bigger Ford Models in 1966's that got the first 3.03 Transmissions in the Car lines like a Fairlane's so they also had the Big Bells too but you just don't see them very often now days, these have the Narrow Trans Mounting Bolt Pattern. To be able to order the correct T5 Adapter plate you will need to know what the Casting / Design Number is on your Bell Housing or at least look and see if its has a Narrow or Wide Trans Mounting Bolt Pattern. Good luck

Not likely all the 2.77's Transmissions have the Narrow Mounting Bolt Pattern and won't bolt up to any versions of the Dagenham Bell Housings unless someone made some kind of a Homemade Adapter Plate or re-drilled the mounting Bolt Holes in the Bell Housing. It would be easy to see an any Adapter Plate installed between the Bell Housing and the Trans. You certainly do have the Larger Flat Flywheel and the 9 inch Clutch Assembly so you good to go on that part. If you can take a few pictures of the Trans and its mounting to the Bell Housing that would help too. What's the Trans Code on you Cars Door Tag?

It appears to be 1 which I believe is a 3 speed manual

 

[bubba22349]

Yes a 1 is a 3-Speed Manual Trans code. The Front Trans Case Casting / Design Number of a Mustang 2.77 is C4DR 7006 -A. I cant see much of your Transmission except for the Bottom Corner of the Mounting Bolt Holes but just from that I don't think its a 2.77 Trans. Here is a few Pictures of the 2.77 Mustang 3 Speed Trans I had. If you actually have a C6OA-6394-C late Dagenham Bell Housing and it sure looks like its that Dagenham Bell Housing from what I can see, then you might also have one of the Late Dagenham 4 Speeds too. The Dagenham Speeds were even an Option for the 1965 Mustangs so it could of been swapped into your car. Your 1966 2 + 2 Looks great by the way!