200 - 250 swap

[Anonymous]

I've got a '79 Mustang Ghia with a 200ci and a C3 tranny. It's my daughter's 1st car. She's got around 230K miles on and I picked her up for $500 from a guy who's had it sitting in his yard, for sale, for about 4 years. Anyway, she came home the other day with a rod knocking real bad. She's been driving it about a year and I'm surprised it's hung in there this long. I've had trouble finding another 200 but did run across a 250, supposedly out of a '76 model, Fairmont or Zephyr, the guy at the salvage yard's not sure. The tag on the valve cover says, I think, it's kinda hard to read, it's a '76 250 ci. However, the block is about an inch taller, the flywheel around 1+ inch bigger (no tranny with it) and the starter mounts low at the block whereas the '79's starter mounts high on the bell housing. The head seems to be the same but there's no way my C3's going to mount up. Can I just get another bell housing and still use the C3 or will I have to go up to a C4? How about the inch higher? Is it going to cause a problem with hood using the same 1v carb? Pardon my ignorance but I'm new at engine swapping. I'm a pretty good parts replacer and can do a decent tuneup but I've never dove into the deep stuff yet. You're advice would be GREATLY appreciated. My daughter's been without a car for a week now and, at 16 years old, it's KILLING her!

 

[Mercury Mike]

Find another 200! Look online for a long block. A rebuilt block will be better than a used one. It will last longer. Where are you in the world?

 

[addo]

You need a trans from a 302, with a neutral balance flywheel off a six. Also the oil pan needs remaking so the deep section and pickup are able to clear the steering rack. I'm not sure on clearances when you shut the lid, but the other two issues need addressing first. It could well be more than you're keen to get into.

Regards, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, you're right, that's more than I can handle right now. I'm on an extremely tight budget and a tranny swap too puts me outside of the range. Well, looks like it's off to the the junk yard again! Thanks for the info!

 

[Anonymous]

I'm in North Georgia, 65stang200. I've only got a $500 budget to work with and I've gotta get her running. I was hoping to pick up a 200 from a junk yard but there gettin' kinda scarce. Out of 19 yards in a 75 mile radius, I found 4 and so far 2 of 'em haven't panned out and 1 would have been a rebuild. One of the 1st 2 turned out to be the 250 I was talking about. If I'm going to rebuild, might as well be the original one, but I've never done that before, don't have the facilities, and not sure how much the bill would add up to. A shop's out of the question, they charge too much labor and a crate motor's way too high. My C3's functional and the rest of the car's still alive although not very pretty, so, if I can get an engine, I can have it running again and get through the winter. Just kinda hit at a bad time.

 

[Mercury Mike]

So what do you need? A set of push rods and an adjustable rocker arm? I got both of those laying around. Or did you just need a new head? I've got one of those too. What exactly is wrong with this 200?

 

[JT81stang]

I've got an 81 Mustang which I did the 200 to 250 swap.
Believe me- it wasn't that easy.

The 250 is 2 inches taller than the 200.
There is no rear sump oil pan for a 250 - you have to fabricate one.

I had to use Maverick motor mounts to sink the 250 into the engine bay for hood clearance - which you still have to use a hood scoop as well.

The 200's power steering pump will not work - you have to use the one that the 250 came from.

My Stang came with a C-4 but I had to switch bellhousings and torque converters.

Your $500 budget would be eaten up pretty fast - probably just fabricating the oil pan......

John

 

[Mercury Mike]

Yeah. Let's see what we can do to get that old 200 back up and spinning.

 

[CoupeBoy]

If its a rod knock you will most likely need a machine shop.

Take out the motor, take off the head, remove the oilpan, remove the crank, push the pistons out the top of the block.

Take the crank and rods into a machine shop, ask them how much it would be to 'turn the crank' on the rods and mains also how much are new bearings going to run versus getting a 'crank kit'. A 'crank kit' would come with already 'turned' crank and new bearings.

Then have them check the big end of the rods to see if they need to be resized. You might be OK and just put in the new rod bearings and re-assemble, or they might have to resize the big end of the rod(s) if it has been stretched.

If you have them 'turn the crank' have them check on the price of a re-ring kit for your motor. If you have brought in the parts I said to (crank, pistons with rods attached) you will have all the necessary parts for them to get you a correct kit (piston oversize, rod and main bearing oversize). There will definately be some math involved.

There's more steps, if you decide to go this way (like cleaning the block, removing the carbon build up ridge, honing the cylinders..) Let us know how you decide to procede..

-ron

 

[Anonymous]

Not exactly sure what's all needed. I know the following:

4 out of 6 valve stem seals are shot.
rocker arms and valve springs "appear" to be OK.
push rods appear ok but I'll probably replace those anyway. cheap
#3 plug burns the electrode off in about 3 weeks.
#4 plug oil fouls badly in about 2 weeks. probably rings
all other plugs burn clean and white except #5 which gets a very slight brown tint on the electrode.
top of #6 piston is badly damaged but valves appear ok. can't figure out how that happened. maybe a broken ring? if so, where'd the pieces go? recent, too, because the gouges and scratches are shiny and the rest of top is black but not wet.
tops of the remaining pistons are sooty black and #4 looks a little wet.
smoked slightly before at start up and upon acceleration but not during routine driving.
engine idled extremely poorly before changing #3 and #4 plug but smoothed out a little afterward. 15 mins. later rod(?) started knocking from somewhere around #4 cylinder, in the block. under the valve cover sounded ok. used a poor man's stethoscope (wooden stick).
haven't dropped the oil pan yet but figured at the least:
bearings, seals, maybe a rod or two, wrist pins, one piston, at least, valve stem seals, maybe an oil pump but pressure would stay good until it lost a quart of oil (leaks around valve cover and oil pan but doesn't leave hardly any spots on the driveway). I know, I've been lazy and procrastinating. It was a spare car until my daughter got her license a few months ago and she's been burning up the roads till now. Oil and water checked a every other day or whenever the pressure dropped. Something else kinda weird. Check the oil and it'll be a quart low. Put a quart in and it's safe. Drive it around the block a couple of times and kill it and it won't show on the stick. Let it sit a couple of hours and it'll be a quart low again. Check it the next morning and it's safe. Clogged drains in the head? They don't look it. Admitting all this to you guys shows my sincerity. I can see ya'll sitting there shaking your heads and saying "My poor inline, what has he done to you" I've been "intending" to get around to some serious maintenance and repair but doing it all in the front yard has been a little daunting. On a positive note, if I can get a salvage engine, I'll have a rebuildable 200 to play with and learn by.

 

[Mercury Mike]

That's true. =))) Get her runnin'! Re-ring, bore it if you can, new valve stem seals, new oil pump, new head gasket, valve cover gasket, new thermostat, make sure fuel pump/alternator/water pump/carburetor are in good shape... now's a great time to just check everything. AND! If you're interested in some fun painting projects... http://links.vintage-mustang.com/FAQ/en ... iling.html

Something I've been meaning to do sometime. My engine looks good, but the compartment is a bit shifty. =)

 

[Anonymous]

Already looked into parts and it'll cost me around 600+ just for the parts, crank, rings, bearings, cam and lifter set, seals, timing set, etc. "Master rebuild kit" + crank. Then machine shop work, if necessary, and buying or renting tools like a ridge reamer, cylinder hone, valve spring compressor, etc. I'd dump $1000 quick and I really don't have it. On the other hand, a salvage engine can be had for around $250 and just change the gaskets and seals, new timing chain and maybe an oil pump and she might get by for a few months while I accumulate parts, tools, capital and a place to work. I'd really love to build it up and pump it up a notch and I know I've found the right place and the right guys to make sure I do it right

 

[64.5 TX Stang]

Check ebay currently there are some piston sets, and re-ring kits.

 

[Soldmy66]

I haven't looked in ages, but you may be able to find a remanufactured long or short block.

 

[Anonymous]

Great news! Found a 200 at a salvage yard about an hour and a half away. Done business with this guy before about 6 years ago. Stacy Crain Auto Salvage in Gainesville, GA if anybody's interested. Anyway, he won't sell you an engine unless he gets it started and checks it out. He had one in a late '70's Fairmont but, after messing with it for a few days, got it started but it smoked bad and he told me he wouldn't sell it because it was no good but that he had one in a Lincoln Versailles he'd dig out. He finally moved about 20 cars out and got it pulled up to the shop and got it started today and he said it runs great! He's pulling it out of the Lincoln and I'm picking it up for $250 on Tuesday!

 

[Mercury Mike]

Awesome! Sounds like YOU'RE IN BUSINESS!

 

[addo]

Make sure it's not a 250!

 

[powerband]

Great news! Found a 200 at a salvage yard about an hour and a half away. ... ....e he wouldn't sell it because it was no good but that he had one in a Lincoln Versailles he'd dig out. ... He's pulling it out of the Lincoln and I'm picking it up for $250 on Tuesday!

Did some years of the Lincoln Versailles come with 200's??

If so what years.

Thanks
Powerband

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, can't wait. Hope it's not a disappointment like........ANOTHER 250! The guy at the yard didn't say what year Lincoln but I'll find out when I get there. He's a pretty straight guy so I'm pretty sure, just "pretty sure" that if he says it's a 200, it is. My faith in yard manager's is waning. If it pans out, she'll should be running this weekend. I want to paint the engine compartment, clean the motor up, change the oil pan gasket and make everything pretty before I drop her back in. How do you post pictures on this site?

 

[woodbutcher]

At the risk of sounding REALLY dumb.If the only problem was a rod knocking,why not just put a crank kit in the engine and go?
Leo