200ci EFI Turbo build

[Anonymous]

Hey guys I am wanting to build a 200 super pursuit Turbo engine and I was wondering a few things

I have been told that the cylinder head of an XF falcon will bolt on and also lower compression, is this correct?
I will be getting the intake manifold ( xf ) modified to fit a custom fuel rail and TR magna Injectors.
I have been told the distributor out of a MPFI EA Falcon will fit into the block without hassles. I will be running a TO4 turbo at 7psi so I plan on using ACL pistons and ARP bolts throughout. The fuel injection will be controlled by the EA MPFI ECU ( was considering delco but not needed for only 7psi )
Can I get a C4 to bolt up to the 200ci engine?

Any help, suggestions or experience would be greatly appreciated guys

 

[addo]

Hey Anthony, which block are you planning to use?

 

[Anonymous]

As for the heads. I don;t think of them as XE or XF heads etc. Go to a wrecker who has heaps of fords and they will probably have a rack full of cylinder heads. Go around and find one with a fairly open chamber. The total open dish chamber is no good though. The one you need still has a pointed vee between the valves but is not the really closed chamber either. You will see what I mean when you are comparing a few at the wreckers.

With the 200ci engine you won't have any trouble getting the comrpession low enough because the swept volume is so much smaller than the 250 engine. On that engine you should be able to use al standard components and achieve around 8.0 without any dramas at all. If you use the full open chamber head then do you compression calcs you might even find that your compression is too low! 8.0 - 8.5:1 is fine for upto around 15 psi of boost, even more if you are keen.

As for a block, try to get a late XF block as the rear crank seals are bigger and better. The XE blocks have a lips seal also but they used a stupid small flywheel bolt to compensate for the edges of the crank sealing face pulling in when the bolts were tightened.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies guys,

Im wanting to use a 200ci engine because, as stated it will provide a nice comp ratio and will also like to rev a bit more than a 250ci.
I was originally thinking of using the 200ci super pursuit engine (XM,XR) but Im not sure if the block will be up to the task?
Am I able to use a late XF block and destroke it to a 200ci? if so what parts will I use, super pursuit crank, rods and ACL pistons? Also are the engine mounts in the same location as it will be going into an XM

If I did use the pursuit block I'm assuming the later aluminium head will bolt on without needing mods to the water jackets or oil galleries?

Thanks again for the help guys, it is much appreciated

 

[addo]

The head isn't a bolt-up story because the void around the pushrods is broader for it. An adapter plate needs to be fixed to a rebate milled on the block edge. One guy has suggested a complete deck plate and longer rods, but that could well require sleeving. You could look for a crank and rods out of a 200 XY-XF, they will fit in the XF 250 block. But at that stage you might as well go a long rod 250 with the custom ACL pistons.

I am inclined to wonder if the revability of the 200 is a red herring, because it's such a primitive motor compared to the Japanese donks of similar capacity. The guys who seem to generate good torque use a 250. The fact that Jack's car isn't road-evaluated yet means that much of the alloy head swap is unquantified in "worthwhileness".

Cheers, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply adam,
It seems I may be better off simply using an XF EFI engine and fitting a To4 and front mount intercooler to that. What is the c/r of these particular engines? and what amount of boost will they be suited to with stock comp ratios ( with the use of stronger ACL pistons )

I have read the tech articles and noticed when the aussie X-flow was fitted to the mustang there was very little clearance between the intake and the strut braces. Can anyone confirm that this will be the same story in an XM falcon?

I am also looking at an XT falcon ute which has been converted to a carby 250X-flow.....hmmm decisions

 

[aussie7mains]

Heres a few suggestions for your early car.
Look for early alloy head 200ci six, there around, just need a bit of hunting. Blocks are all the same, cranks only slightly different, Crank rods etc are not a problem, as been stated the stock CR might be OK, just check to find out what it is.
The crossflow will fit into all early falcons including XK, the clearance problem mentioned is with the EFI intake manifold, given its problems you might not be advised to use it anyway. Id be inclined to make something.
However there may be a small problem with water pump to radiator clearance and sump to stabilizer bar clearance3 in XPs, nothing too difficult to deal with. As to C4 thats easy, just find a six cylinder unit and your away, driveshafts isnt a worry. The stock XP diff with blow with that sort of torque so go to something else, say later BTR or if you can find one 8inch ford.
Otherwise an easy project really.
A7m

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah as Aussie & said there is a late 3.3L engine with alloy head etc.
Ford even stuck with the short stroke long rod engines right into the EA series OHC engines with the 3.2L carby engines!

Just a suggestion but if you are really keen about this project then I would look at grabbing one of those engines. Advantages are there with the OHC engine. They rev better and have less camshaft / valve train harmooics.

The OHC cranks are fully counterweigthed and stronger.

There is also a race series ACL Duralite piston available for the OHC engine. Actually using the 200CI engine you may get away with an ovserise OHC race series piston anyway. I could not use them as they only had about 14cc dish or something. I need 27.9cc dish in the 250 engine.

The biggest and best plus from the OHC engine is the fact that the starter motor is on the passenger side of the block! Particularly important on a turbo engine when you try to get a 3.5" dump pipe and decent exhaust manifold on the car!

The downside to the OHC engine is that your C4 will need an adapter plate to bolt up to tha back of it.

Another suggestion is to use the 221 CI crank. The 221 crank is much stonger than the 250 crank. The 250 crank has such a long stroke that the big end journal is out so far it does not overlap the main bearing journal if you imagine viewing the crank in section. The 221 crank doens't have the harmonic problems. The issues I have with the old 221 crank is I don't know how is can be used with a late alloy heads. I know of an old 221 pre-crossflow engine which is twin turboed and revving much harder than a 250 though.

In the end I am running a 250 and even running a T66 it will be street drivable with over 800 Nm of torque on tap.

 

[xctasy]

Another suggestion is to use the 221 CI crank. The 221 crank is much stonger than the 250 crank. The 250 crank has such a long stroke that the big end journal is out so far it does not overlap the main bearing journal if you imagine viewing the crank in section. The 221 crank doens't have the harmonic problems. The issues I have with the old 221 crank is I don't know how is can be used with a late alloy heads. I know of an old 221 pre-crossflow engine which is twin turboed and revving much harder than a 250 though.....

I've had no success with sealing the the 221 crank flange in the 250 block...yet.

I used one by welding up the main journals to 250 size, but the flange is only 94 mm, while the 250 and EA-onwards are 92 mm. The bolts on the flange are 69.9 mm, not 76.2 mm appart as in the later Falcons. This means you have top use a redrilled blank flywheel or flexplate. Addo has some details on this. I used a different kind of V8 one to suit my V8 spec auto, but I'm not happy with what I've produced. I've know got a wopping great v8 flexplate hung off a too small bolt centre.


The last thing is that the rope seal flange is knife edged to sling oil into the rope seal. If you use the post 1985, but pre 1987 250 blocks, you can just weld the crank flange up to 92 mm. If you use the rope seal 250, you have to create a knife edge flange to suit.

A7M had the best idea. Using the stock 250 bearings, and honing off the babbit, new 1966 XR spec 200 or latter 221 bearings can be in the 250 crank tunnel. Then the 221 crank drops in. The thrust bearing then must be cut to suit the crank tunnel. There is not a lot of work in this, but there is in the crank flange. Since the 221 crank flange is the same as the American 200, I've had to machine up a whole new seventh bearing carrier. The 250 one is too big, and the XR 200-XY 221 ones won't adapt because the bolt spacings of the main bearings differ. So your forced to make a new seventh bearing carrier. My first one leaks, and I'm not doing another untill I've sorted out which one of the three types of 250 seal I'll use. If I counter sink the block to the XF 1985-87 type, I'll be able to weld the crank flange up to 92 mm, and use the stock XF seal.


Bear with me. What I' ll end up with is a 56 thou over 3729cc 228 cube mill with a small 221 crank, long 3.3 rods, and a really good rod ratio.

If I had found this forum before I started this, I'd have used the 3.3 crank, and done a stocker for a third of the cost. And I'd be running around in it today.

Live and learn...

 

[Anonymous]

XE Cute, I would be keen to know if you ever get this running.

Using the 94mm lip seal type block was the way I had in mind. I can;t stand those rope seals in any case and would rather have a 250 crank if it meant going back to a rope seal! ahahh!

If I ever blow up my crossflow I would like to build up and OHC engine with custom pistons and rods and chuck all my turbo and manifolds on that.

A 221 CI OHC engine with custom rods and pistons would be bulletproof, good for 1000hp!

 

[Anonymous]

You can use the standard XE EFI computer and air flow meter with a turbo.

What you need to do is take the top cover of the AFM and turn the spring that holds the flap closed so its harder to open as it comes onto boost.

Then if you take a look at the AFM you will notice a little board with lines on it and a metal arm that slides over it.You can adjust the arm to make it richer
move it 1 line at a time but dont go further than 3 lines as the arm will slide off the board and give you a big dead spot.
This mod is ok for around 9-12 psi