223 loadomatic advance curve issue

[Drumhead_Dan]

Hi ya'll. Just getting a 64 F100 back on the road, unfortunately the orig distr went with the original truck engine, along with the original carb. I have another engine from about a 61, but the distr. that came with it was shot and for a 240 or something, and the carb I picked up is a rebuilt 65-something with the wrong jet(fixed) and linkage (also fixed). I have the correct distr. springs, but I'm not sure if the codes on the top of the plate mean anything (like one is marked 6-13), I'm not sure its degrees, and I'm not sure what the plate for the 223 should say on top.

Anyway, Ford says the correct breaker plate for the truck is C1DF-12151-A. The rebuilt distr. I picked up has a different final advance than the 223 needs, but the price was right and there's a rockin' junkyard just down the road with a lot of this old stuff in it if I can identify what I need.

Thanks in advance,
Dan

 

[fmartin_gila]

Not sure as to what direction you are headed here. You do know that the Load-O-Matic setup uses a vacuum only advance and requires a carb with a Spark Control Valve built in such as the Holley 1904? This carb is the one with the bowl mounted on the side with 4 screws, and the bowl may be metal or glass which enables you to see the float and such. If you have a Junkyard handy that has these type vehicles, my thought would be to find both a dizzy and carb from the same vehicle and do a rebuild from there. At least doing this would enable you to start out with compatable units. In the stickys up in the small block section, there is a fine write-up about the LOM system for education, if you don't know what I am mumbling about.

Fred

 

[Drumhead_Dan]

I'm using a rebuilt autolite(a c5az spark carb) with a a spark distr(not sure what year, I gotta go look), I just can't figure out which breaker point plate I need.

The distr. bodies are all alike from what I can see, the springs and breaker plate change over each engine application. The factory rebuild distr I have has a longer throw across the breaker plate, so the advance curve doesn't have the proper limits for a 223. All the breaker plates I've seen so far have numbers stamped into them so I'm looking for specific information about the plate ID so I can find the correct advance limit, rather than trying to modify the one I have(its breaker plate rotates way too far). I believe this is just an issue with matching the right application. All of the carbs are pretty much the same from what I can see, except the spark valve comes in different colors. The spark is doing what I think its supposed to, the vacuum goes up to like five and a half max( opposed to 20 direct manifold vac).

If I didn't have off the shelf factory rebuilt spark stuff, I'd be looking at other solutions. From my best understanding of reading the manual and comparing distr. internal parts numbers the thing I'm lacking is the correct id on the breaker plate itself.

If I posted in the wrong spot, or duplicated a thread, sorry 'bout that. I'm not sure your suggestion to get a matched carb/distr will work, as every other small six seems to have a unique advance curve. If you're right it would save me a ton of trouble, though.

 

[fmartin_gila]

It's about 4:25 here where I am and still dark. Somewhat later, I will go out and see what info I can get from mine. It is a 62 F100 223, so should be same as what you need. Will post some info, if I find any, later.

Fred

 

[fmartin_gila]

This is the first time in over four years I have popped the dizzy cap, thank you Pertronix. But I was unable to see any part number on the breaker plate, unless it's underneath or under the Pertronix unit.

All my catalogs and references show to use the same dizzy from 55 thru 63, so I would guess that your C5AZ carb would be wrong to use with a B5 toC3 Dizzy.

I think I would try to find a Holley 1904 Carb and Dizzy off a 55 - 63 Fl00 as long as it has the 223 should have the right curve so long as it came out of a pickup and not a car. I don't know if the car and pickup had different curves or not.

Fred

 

[Drumhead_Dan]

Thanks for lookin' for me. I need to change the secondary spring still. It just seems like the truck winds up nice 'till a certain point. I swapped the original 3.89 rear end for a 3.25 and I may have to change it back if I can't get this lined out. From my best guess I was running sixty at 2500 rpm, but the speedo hasn't been checked and I was going by flow of traffic. I could be off five mph eighther way. Early acceleration is pretty good once it starts rolling, up to about 60 or so, but there ain't no passing and there ain't no acceleration uphill (colloquialism is always free-big words like "colloquialism" are fiddy cent ). I'm headed back down to Lousiana this week or next and if I can't get this thing to do what I want its getting a y-block...

mostly kidding...

 

[fmartin_gila]

You noted on your other thread with the pictures that you have a "add on PVC" system. Is it possible that this may be the problem? I added a PVC system on my 223 too, and it seems to be working well. I don't have an original air cleaner, so I use an aftermarket one. Just a 9 inch one from Autozone. I set up my PVC system so it sucks air from the interior of the aircleaner to the road draft tube, then through the engine and out the oil filler tube on the Valve Cover. I had to get a different oil filler cap which had a hose connection nipple on it and used a inline PVC Valve. I use a Holley 1904 Carb with SCV and LOM Dist and it seems to be working very well. I installed this setup between three and four years ago.


fred

 

[Drumhead_Dan]

I haven't blocked off the blow tube from the block(I was reminded and still forgot). The valve cover and pcv system (the valve cover with the pcv was a bolt on fit) from another truck. I'll disable it this morning and see if anything changes. The pcv system went on after I'd posted, but it was probably a poor choice of add-ons before I had everything else lined out.

 

[Drumhead_Dan]

I combed the junkyard today, the correct plate seems to be marked 6 13(its under the secondary spring). Napa has the correct gear to adapt the larger (later) distr. shafts off the 300's, I might just go duraspark since there won't be any machining to do it.

 

[fmartin_gila]

Then you may wind up with an oil pump drive problem. There were two sizes of the hex drive between the dist and the pump during the run of the 223. I don't remember when the change came. you may have to get a later oil pump to accomodate the drive from a 300 dist. I don't know what size the drive would be for a 300. Just something more to consider while contemplating thoughts along this line.

Fred

 

[Drumhead_Dan]

Mornin' Fred. The 1/4 inch hex oil pump shaft runs to '63, with 5/16ths starting in the 1964 crossover year until present. There is an oil pump available for the one year production in '64, Melling number M67 or M67A(I think), but more than likely I'll just shave down the 5/16 hex shaft to 1/4 hex rather than pull the pan and swap pumps. Most of the conversions to the 300 dizzy call for shaving the shaft down or boring the gear, but with an available gear with the correct inside diameter for the later distr I'm more enthusiastic about trying it. I was really reluctant to to ruin my new distributor, but I can blow 30 bucks for the larger ID gear and leave my current distr alone.

 

[JimKoz]

Do you have a part number for that distributor gear?

 

[Drumhead_Dan]

1964 Ford F100 w/223 NAPA online:
Distributor Gear & Pin Kit w/ .531 Diameter Shaft
part number: ECH DG305
$27.99

Item#: ECHDG305
Price: $27.99
tax and shipping not included
Disclaimer: The stated price may vary from the in store price and may change at anytime.
Attributes:
# of Teeth:14 Teeth
I.D.:0.531"
O.D.:1.125"
Height:1.25"
Direction of Pitch:Left Hand

Distributor Gear & Pin Kit w/ .467 Diameter Shaft
part number: ECH DG310
$29.99

Item#: ECHDG310

Price: $29.99
tax and shipping not included
Disclaimer: The stated price may vary from the in store price and may change at anytime.
Attributes:
# of Teeth:14 Teeth
I.D.:0.467"
O.D.:1.125"
Height:1.25"
Direction of Pitch:Left Hand

I don't have the part in hand, nor own stock in NAPA. I know I've seen the smaller gear for 16 bucks other places; there might be better deals out there. I *think* the information is accurate, but I haven't actually tried it.
http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=430&CatId=1&SubCatId=1
Bottom of second page.

 

[Drumhead_Dan]

So I ordered the gear, and it has 14 teeth, just like the ad said. All of the distributors and camshafts I can find show 12 teeth... The gear listed isn't right, and I'm still trying to find out why. I hope my mis-information wasn't harmful.

 

[59F100]

Hey Dan,
Whatever happened here with your conversion?

 

[Drumhead_Dan]

A sixty seven Mustang project Started the old Ford the other day, purred like a kitten. I haven't messed with the 64 at all, or the Mustang for that matter. Its a bother being on the road all the time.

 

[59F100]

Geez...took you a while to reply on that one!

So you finished the duraspark conversion and havent had any problems?

 

[Drumhead_Dan]

I had to move it out of the shop, it got the rebuilt 65 distributor. I have all the junk laying around for the duraspark conversion, but God knows where its at. I ran up against a wall on the gear I wanted to use.