2V Valve springs

[Anonymous]

Well, I'm back after reading and re-reading the posts listed above...

I'm no closer to a firm answer then when I began! Sorry gents, but the more I read, the less I'm sure of what I need.

Addo pointed me to Crow for the single spring application which shows this:
<table>
<tr>
<td>PART NO. </td>
<td >INSTALLED HEIGHT </td>
<td >INSTALLED PRESSURE </td>
<td >PRESSURE @.5 LIFT </td>
<td >MAX. LIFT </td>
<td >SOLID HEIGHT </td>
<td >SPRING RETAINER </td>
<td >VALVE LOCKS </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td >7820 </td>
<td >1.550" </td>
<td >100 </td>
<td >205 </td>
<td >.530" </td>
<td >.975" </td>
<td >Standard </td>
<td>11703 </td>
</tr></table>

RagtopMan said he used "RV778 Elgin Valve Springs on my 250-2V head".


And xtaxi said "The ISKY 347 -ST is it. It will fit okay!" for the retainers (but he was a bit confused on which motor/head I was working on I think ). For STOCK OZ valves and the Crow springs listed above by Addo, would I get these ISKY retainers or should I just get the locks and retainers Crow suggests for that single spring application?

I've sent a note to Crow asking for their oppinion as well...that's just what I need, right? Another suggestion!

Thanks for putting up with me guys!

 

[alloydave]

I GOT RV778 SPECS
#RV778
FREE LENGTH =1.828
OD =1.355/1.365
ID = 1.001/1.011
WIRE SIZE = 0.177
CLOSED PRESSURE & LENGTH = 48-59@1.585
OPEN PRESSURE AND LENGTH = 148.5-158.5@1.222
NUMBER OF COILS = 6 L/HAND

LISTED AS A 170 US FORD 1965-1972
FORD 200 US 1965-83
FORD 250 US 1969-1980

CHEERS DAVE

 

[Anonymous]

I just got this from Crow Cams:

Hi
that head you have was fairly rare here I think it only came out in a couple off models but it sure worked great we used them on the speed way cars
the springs 7820 should be fine the retainers are 11700-12 these and the collets are 11703
spring $80 retainers $83 locks $10
Yours Ray

How does this sound? Were these heads rare? I thought they were very common, but what do i know :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Bryce,

Edit, I see above you have the specs for the Crow Cams 7820 springs, the RV778 Elgin springs are nearer to stock. The reason for my edit above was because the specifications I gave my engine builder included the Elgin RV778 springs however according to my receipt we ended up going with the Isky 1005-W/206G springs. The specs can be found on this page:
http://www.iskycams.com/pdfcatalog/2004-05/page49.pdf
These are a bit stiffer for higher revving engines, to preclude valve float. I also have the 1.75" and 1.50" SI valves and had the rotating assembly built and balanced.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Don. WHen you say the Isky 1005-W/206G springs are closer to stock, do you mean stock for the OZ head or the US head? You have the OZ head as well? Do the Isky 1005-W/206G springs fit right on or do they require special machining and or different style valve stem seals? How about valve locks and retainers?

 

[Anonymous]

Bryce,
What I said was:

the RV778 Elgin springs are nearer to stock.

If you look at the specs alloydave posted, next would be the Isky springs (Ref. the link I posted) and the hardest springs of those listed appear to be the Crow springs (Ref. the specs you posted) looking at the open & closed spring tension.
The Elgin springs are typical of standard springs you would get in a rebuild kit for a US 200 engine.
The question is which springs best match your set-up. Your cam is similar to mine, but mine has 108 lobe centers. The other difference is the valves I'm using. Springs are normally matched to the cam, the 264/274 cam is a medium lift cam, so I would say the Iskys would be a good match, the Crow springs may be overkill, since your going with the stock valves the Elgin springs would probably work fine.
I don’t have a 250 2V head, I have two.
The Isky springs are for domestic valves, will they work on Aussie valves? Don’t know, I went with SI valves from Mike. Here are some other part numbers for you:
Bronze guides, SI P/N VG 20312/RB straight valve guides with the 5/16 id and a .502 outside diameter and 2.250 long
SI Hardened Valve Seats, the oz head does not have hardened seats.

Retainers from Isky P/N 4107-ST,
Isky 5/16 Single Groove HD Valve Locks

 

[Anonymous]

Ok kids, I'm back. I've got to make a choice here like now as I have other problems with my valve train that are likely being caused by my spring issues.

So far, here are the springs that have been recommended:

Isky 1005-W 1.650" installed height 115 seat pressure 0.940 coil bind 250 spring rate

Crow 7820 1.550 installed height 0.975 solid height 100 seat pressure 0.530 max lift

stock replacement Cleveland 351 2v valve springs for the first 1970-1971 265 hp Torino/Mustangs

Elgin RV778 "Listed as stock replacements for '65-'72 170CID, '65-'83 200CID, & '69-'80 250CID"



I wish the spring manufacturers would ALL use the same terminology and data types!

I'm leaning first toward the Crow springs mainly because they are Aussie and based on what they said, they should be fine...but he may be thinking "fine" for a stock cam. Plus, I've got Aussie valves, so I'm not sure what domestics will work.

I'm leaning next toward the Isky's that Don went with since his build up is very similar to mine (other than his 108* cam and mine is 110*) even though some people on the forum seem to have serious issues with Isky . they obviously fit right on teh OZ head and based on the seat pressure and coil bind numbers, should be good...right? Wil these work with Aussie valves and if so, which retainers/locks?

Any last recommendations before I take the plunge? Sorry again guys. I just don't want to F this up!

 

[xctasy]

stock replacement Cleveland 351 2v valve springs for the first 1970-1971 265 hp Torino/Mustangs

Not that one, it was a wrong recommendation. I made that recommendation because I thought you had an X-flow. opsie: :duh: :smash: :nono: :thumbdown: dumb :NZ: I didn't realise you had a 2V on a US 200. :fume:

I used to use the screen setting that doesn't include your signature and avatar. Looks like addo did too!

Great thing is, we can help you! If you remove the shims, you could use the Crow springs listed . That is my first choice. AzCoupes recommendation is based on a specific SI valve and head machining to suit the smaller valve guide. This makes the US 2V heads more like the US log heads, and the stock US springs won't match the stock Aussie 250 2v.

In your case, because you are so close to stock in valves, you should use what the Aussies recommend for higher lift cams.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks very much. That was my feeling as well. OZ head, OZ valves & guides, OZ rockers...

OZ spring recommendations. I'm going to contact Crow again and ask about a recommended spring to match as the ones first pointed out were "stock" I believe.

I'll let you know what they say.

 

[addo]

The Crow 7820 IS a performance spring.

It will not bind in your situation, if you have correctly stated your cam lift and the installed height is within 50 thou of stock.

After what that cam's been through, I'd be replacing it myself. and possibly the timing chain (not the gears).

 

[Anonymous]

After what that cam's been through, I'd be replacing it myself. and possibly the timing chain (not the gears).

Really?? It's brand spanking new as is the timing set.

Thanks for the note..I'm ordering Crow srpings I think ASAP.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I've tried to contact Crow again, but I've gotten no reply. I want to order my springs, but they either don't want to deal with a Yank, or don't want to take the effort of contacting me with the time difference.

With that said, is there a way to look up a spring by it's specs? Like can I put in the Crow spring specs somewhere and have it spit out a match from another manufacturer? I would really much rather be able to buy these springs locally or at least in the states to avoid the delay of getting them from Australia.

I'm quickly leaning toward going with RagtopMan's springs that his mechanic put in:

"we ended up going with the Isky 1005-W/206G springs"

Any of you Aussies wanna call Crow local time and see whats up for me? I got the first two emails from a guy named Ray...but nothing since telling him I wanted to order!

 

[addo]

BC, a few pointers:

Firstly, Crow prefer to deal through an agent. My local store can do it and so can "American Auto Parts" (who do accept web orders); there's a markup but maybe you were quoted retail anyway. You can call Aussie businesses around 7:00PM your time and be sure they're open.

I'd buy and post them to Mike for you if someone hadn't slipped me a $1K dud cheque last week - kinda screwed the cashflow.

Secondly, you may have just been overlooked. In a busy environment, it's possible someone thought "I'll get onto that first thing tomorrow", and then was distracted.

Thirdly, I still urge you to support the Crow product. I understand WSA's reservations about other makers, following his experiences. If you'd been sold a duff product which damaged your motor, and received no satisfactory redress from the product mfr, you'd be "dissing" them, too. Also, I may be wrong but Don (Harrison's) engine is not yet in service. For his sake, I hope it all works as planned but I could not say that combination is verified yet.

Regards, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

ODD! I replied this morning but it didn't post!

Essentially I said thanks :roll:

I searched for American Auto Parts and only came up with a tools supplier that looked close. Then I found this:

https://www.americanautos.com.au/

That must be them, eh? I don't see a states-sde retailer and I don't see online pricing for my parts, so I sent them an email

Thanks again Addo.

 

[addo]

That's them. It's not a list item in their online pricing. You'd need to email them or call for a price (to your door), quoting the Crow P/N. They ship pretty much anywhere and are fast and reliable doing so. I sometimes use the shipping when I am too busy to travel 5 miles to their shop. :roll:

Just for posterity, I'll repeat a frequent comment of mine: Australia is not a very "on-line" country. You can easily miss a whole lot of stuff by just getting on the 'net and surfing. As one CA-based FSP member mentioned; you can get on the Yellow Pages site and start 'phoning the businesses you see advertised. It's how he found several 2V and closed chamber Clevo heads.

Let me know if they need chasing up!

Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks again!

 

[Anonymous]

I may be wrong but Don (Harrison's) engine is not yet in service. For his sake, I hope it all works as planned but I could not say that combination is verified yet. Regards, Adam.

True, I'm still gathering parts for other projects that I want to do while the engine is out. My spring-time project list keeps growing. As for the viability of my unproven setup, I trusted an expert engine builder (L & R Engine) with the best information gathered here and else ware to match parts to specific performance goals. Unlike Brice who is trying to maintain the stock AU valve tain, I went with the 3/4" and 1/2" SI valves from Mike. The SI springs weren’t available so the builder had to compare specs and recommend a suitable replacement which I approved.
I agree with Adam, go with a spring and retainer designed and proven for your application.

I'm only replacing springs and retainers, not valves, valve guides, etc.

That way you won’t need to replace anything else.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Addo...wanna run 5 miles for me? I can get no response to email from anyone Down Under! Damn Yankee reputation preceeds me I guess.

If you'd be a chum and get me that pricing, I'd SO appreciate it!! I'll PM you my address.

Thanks again man!