All Small Six '62 Falcon 200: Overheating Diagnosis & Build Options

This relates to all small sixes

John Ha

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I have a Mustang, which is not the same as your Falcon, but similar. I have to say that 225° is not overheating - that's not even boiling temperature for a water-glycol mix under pressure.

I didn't see anywhere how full you are filling your radiator. My experience, and that of others, is to fill the radiator only so that the tops of the fins (you can see in the tank) are covered. Anything above that will be expelled. If you're filling the radiator all the way up to the top of the tank, it's going to puke until it has the correct amount of coolant in it.

Also, once you flush or drain the system, do you know that you need to let the engine run at idle for 20-30 minutes with the radiator cap off? This makes sure that all the air trapped inside is expelled and replaced with coolant. During and after this running time you should add coolant to bring the level up to the proper point.
 

chad

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"...not giving up that easily..."
15 yrs, good 4 U.
I don't think U gotta problem. C my earlier posts.
We'll stick widya tho...
 

StarDiero75

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Are you 100% sure your system is burped? I used to have issues with that then I drilled an 1/8" holt at the top of the Tstat and it fixed it. Just an idea. The 4 fans as well could be too much. Remember, when they kick on, it draws more amps. Which makes your alternator harder to turn which requires more work from the engine. You're running a lot of current for your Sniper/Fuel Pump/4 Fans. What type of alternator are you running?
 

Cool23

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This may sound like an odd question, but what fuel are you running? I have found the change from leaded fuel to unleaded fuel makes many of my vehicle run hotter.
 

Alastairq

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I got a local aluminium fabricator to knock me up an expansion bottle...a tube, about the height of the radiator [on mine,and old brass thing of dodgy provenance, {can't afford a new rad ]...with a screw top, and a spigot at the base. The overflow hose runs to this. But then, here in the UK I don't get to see such exciting air temps! Anyway, now I've fitted a new temp sender [the old one simply expired] i can now see it doesn't overheat...whereas before, I only guessed it didn't. I've got a very sensitive nose for hot antifreeze...
 

bubba22349

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Did you get your shroud installed yet? Is your HEI advance timing being controlled by the Sniper EFI? You mentioned a couple times about thinking that the 200 block was bad how much is the 200 bored out? What did the inside of the blocks coolant passages look like when you removed the freeze plugs? Did you ever do a Radiator / Cooling system pressure test on your car yet?
 

Clwoods

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Did you get your shroud installed yet? Is your HEI advance timing being controlled by the Sniper EFI? You mentioned a couple times about thinking that the 200 block was bad how much is the 200 bored out? What did the inside of the blocks coolant passages look like when you removed the freeze plugs? Did you ever do a Radiator / Cooling system pressure test on your car yet?
Waiting on the shroud. Just moved the vacuum advance to the correct port on the Sniper was on the manifold vacuum not distributor. That definitely made the car calm down and seem smoother but not temp changes. Motor is .30 over. After I pulled the plugs there wasn't much corrosion for it being an almost 60 yr old block. Have a brand new Scott drake 3 Row copper brass rad. When the shroud comes in hopefully it will increase air flow at idle and keep the temp from climbing st stop lights. At speed the temp seems to hold and even drop a bit but with the a/c on she climbs ever so slowly on highway and more than 1°/minute at a light. Also have an oil leak somewhere now that we are chasing, and think we are going to pull the head and swap it for a larger log. That'll give us a chance to look at the coolant passages and see if we can clean em out further. Slow and steady, not making much progress, but since I changed the alternator pulley to a dual v and added an idler pulley to run the belt: crank water pump, idler, alternator, ac compressor. I am not hearing any more slips when I kick on the air.
 

bubba22349

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Many of the HEI Distribitors don't have the right advance cruve for the Ford small six'es. Do you know how much total advance timing your getting with the vacuum line unhooked and plugged? The radiator shroud will diffenatly be a big help in the slow traffic condistions and setting at stop lights. If your somtimes puking coolant out of the overflow than a coolant recovery tank might be of some help.

X3 i agree that a block that's only a .030 over bore shouldn't be causing any of your problems. I have had a few of the log heads that were cracked though and this is the reason I asked if you had done a cooling system pressure test yet to see if there was maybe there's an internal coolant leak, head gasket leak, or a cracked head, were coolant might be disappearing out the exhaust or were compression is being pushed into the cooling system that will also push coolant out the radiator over flow too.

There is a cheap way to use Electrolysis to clean every bit of rust, crude, grease, and other deposits inside and out on blocks, heads and other parts. Here is a short video I found on how it, works. I once used Chem Strip to clean an engine (its pricey) it really works great getting the rust out but they first need to be grease and oil free. I am going to use this Electrolysis method on my next engine build to get everything nice and clean inside the block passages.
 

chad

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"...If your somtimes puking coolant out..."
he sez 'never' correct?
 

Clwoods

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"...If your somtimes puking coolant out..."
he sez 'never' correct?
Never puke coolant. I did once about 6 months ago when I drove the car for about an hour but we were running high 210s for a while and it was only a few ounces. Since then never.
 

Clwoods

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Many of the HEI Distribitors don't have the right advance cruve for the Ford small six'es. Do you know how much total advance timing your getting with the vacuum line unhooked and plugged? The radiator shroud will diffenatly be a big help in the slow traffic condistions and setting at stop lights. If your somtimes puking coolant out of the overflow than a coolant recovery tank might be of some help.

X3 i agree that a block that's only a .030 over bore shouldn't be causing any of your problems. I have had a few of the log heads that were cracked though and this is the reason I asked if you had done a cooling system pressure test yet to see if there was maybe there's an internal coolant leak, head gasket leak, or a cracked head, were coolant might be disappearing out the exhaust or were compression is being pushed into the cooling system that will also push coolant out the radiator over flow too.

There is a cheap way to use Electrolysis to clean every bit of rust, crude, grease, and other deposits inside and out on blocks, heads and other parts. Here is a short video I found on how it, works. I once used Chem Strip to clean an engine (its pricey) it really works great getting the rust out but they first need to be grease and oil free. I am going to use this Electrolysis method on my next engine build to get everything nice and clean inside the block passages.
Going to figure out the dizzy and vacumm next. I have a 200 head that I will be replacing this one with. We found out it was a 170 small log from 63, I have a larger log from 73 to add.
 

Clwoods

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So let's update everyone on the progress..... "OR LACK THEREOF"

-Got a Dual V Type alternator Pulley
-Added an idler Pulley from a 78 bronco
-New Belt Routed: Crank - Water Pump - Idler Pulley - Alternator Pulley - A/C - Back
-No More Slipping Belt
-Fitted the HEI Vacuum Line to the proper Line on the Sniper EFI (definitely smoothed out the idle and actually helped with the temp a bit)
-Finally got a shroud AND doesn't fit new radiator.
-Ordered some self supporting hinges to replace the stock ones and remove the hood rod & support flanges.


#1- modifying the radiator brackets and fitting for the shroud along with sealing the gaps at top and bottom of shroud (due to the height of new rad)

#2- use the old radiator that perfectly fits the shroud and hope that the fin bond is solid enough for the cooling to occur (at least I can test the benefit of adding the shroud)

**Both #1 & #2 will benefit from the hinges and allow the radiator to sit deeper into the core support opening without hitting the hood rod flange anymore.

#3 Order a $700 US Radiator 3 Row High Efficiency with Triple Flow radiator that is stock dimension (other than being 2" thick, instead of 1⅜" 2 row thickness) and wait the 5 weeks to test out that option and see if the longer coolant travel with help with heat disappation.

#4- Rip off the 1963 170 head that is on my 200 block and replace it with a 1973 200 large log head that I have laying on the workbench. Hopefully this will change a bit of the compression and the heat associated with it. (check/clean the coolant passages and inspect for damage)

#5- Start my 250-2v Head/200 Block performance build earlier than I want to and get read to swap the entire drive train. I mean everything. 250-2v/200 + C4 + 8in Rear. And then order the High Efficiency Triple Flow rad to help support the change in performance. (Don't really want to start an $8k-$10k project right now, but what the tradeoff of continuing the little $100-$500 projects here and there that keep adding up)


Man I love this car but I am so lost. All I want to do is rip the canyons on the way to the beach and not worry about overheating on the way back up over the hill.

@bubba22349 @chad @Stubby @xctasy @drag-200stang @StarDiero75
 
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sixtseventwo4d

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Any chance of a rag or blue towel getting lost inside the radiator? I've a habit of stuffing rags in opening to keep debris and stuff out. I haven't forgotten one yet I've found plenty in turbo housings, radiators, water pumps, intakes, blowers, CAC's etc etc.....
 

chad

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@ 3 pages and over 50 posts I hope the admin(s) change this toa build thread.
Its way past 'overheat'. A seperate thread for each issue would B alright too...
 

Clwoods

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@ 3 pages and over 50 posts I hope the admin(s) change this toa build thread.
Its way past 'overheat'. A seperate thread for each issue would B alright too...
Sorry about the informalities. I am not trying to disrupt the standard here. I just don't know what to do at this point since everything I have thrown at this car at this point has not solved the issue.

I changed the title of the thread to accommodate more inclusion of everyone's opinions, experience and recommendations. I'd be happy to break this out into separate threads if someone can help with that.
 
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Clwoods

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Any chance of a rag or blue towel getting lost inside the radiator? I've a habit of stuffing rags in opening to keep debris and stuff out. I haven't forgotten one yet I've found plenty in turbo housings, radiators, water pumps, intakes, blowers, CAC's etc etc.....
Definitely something I do as well, however I have never left one around close enough to get lost.
 

chad

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aren't U da guy (I may B wrong here) that it was said on the data U reported it was not overheating? the other I'd address ina 2nd thread (not sure what it is, not gunna read all that now)...
 

Clwoods

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aren't U da guy (I may B wrong here) that it was said on the data U reported it was not overheating? the other I'd address ina 2nd thread (not sure what it is, not gunna read all that now)...
May be mistaking me with someone else. Had the same issue for 15 years. Even on a 70° day in Los Angeles the motor hits 210+ with the a/c on. Still diagnosing the problem and starting to think it could be head related as a combination with the air flow issue.

Planning to modify and fit the shroud properly (not like the hack job I paid for) and test it out. Then address the head of the shroud doesn't show signs of improvement.
 

hodaka100

Active member
I don't know why you thonk you have a cooling problem. I would say 210 is an ideal temp and there is nothing wrong with it if it stays under 225 or 230. Its not overheating unless you can hear the coolant boiling after you turn the engine off or if the coolant rapidly escapes the vehicle. Any true overheating problem i cant easily diagnose i blame the head gasket.
 
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