'63 170ci Dies while driving - Now what did I do?

[63RancheroGuy]

Hey guys,

If you read my other post, you'll know I had trouble with my accelerator pump - i.e. my car would try to die rather than accelerate. I just got that fixed, I installed a new fuel filter. I changed out the diaphragm, and cracked open the carburetor to clean out the little orifices. I adjusted the accelerator pump linkage because it was sloppy. Got it put back together, and got my acceleration back. Yay - happy dance!

I drove it around town last night, after warming it up in the driveway. Here there, maybe 3 or 4 miles altogether.

Decided to drive to work this morning. Cold start - started up fine Got about 3 miles down the rode (engine not warmed up yet, thermostat hadn't opened up) and the engine stalled while my foot was on the pedal. I pulled it off to the side of the road. Tried to start it back up....turned over but no start.

I let it set for a while, maybe 2 or 3 minutes later, it started right up. I cursed a little, then got back on the road and drove maybe another 1/2 mile before it died on me again while my foot was on the gas. tried to start it, no luck. I waited another few minutes, it started right back up - went about 3 miles this time before it.....died again while I had my foot on the gas. Once again I let it sit for a few minutes, started it up, and made it to work this time which is just about a 1/2 mile before it died in the parking lot. I pushed my car into a parking spot.

Got plenty of gas in the tank - probably 7 gallons.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Adam

 

[ludwig]

Since it starts and runs for a while, then dies inexplicably, then starts again after standing a brief while, you probably have rust fouling the fuel intake in the tank. Rust flakes or particles gather around the mesh filter and sticks fast as fuel is sucked up. When it stops, they fall off until they are sucked up again. Check the fuel intake filter and/or clean out the tank by removing it and washing it out with some kind of cleaner solvent.

 

[63RancheroGuy]

Thanks. That sounds like a lot of fun...

I don't want to sound skeptical, because I believe you but is there anything I could have done while messing with the carburetor that could cause this as well?

When I changed out the fuel filter - I noticed the old one did have some rusty colored sediment on it. I should probably blow out the lines while I'm at it.

Is dropping the tank and cleaning it out something a guy (like me) could do in a day?

How does the filter connect - is it attached to the fuel sending unit?

How do you safely drop the tank?

Thanks for all the help.

Adam

 

[BIGREDRASA]

An old mechanics' adage is that when you think it's carburetion, it's probably ignition, and vice versa. when it dies, try a jumper wire from the + of the Battery to the + of the coil. If it starts, you now have a bad ballast resistor. It still could be a carb problem, but it doesn't hurt to check.

 

[ludwig]

When I changed out the fuel filter - I noticed the old one did have some rusty colored sediment on it. I should probably blow out the lines while I'm at it.

Is dropping the tank and cleaning it out something a guy (like me) could do in a day?

How does the filter connect - is it attached to the fuel sending unit?

How do you safely drop the tank?

Do a search on 'clean fuel tank'. There will be several opinions and even more facts to guide you. The tank filter and the fuel gauge are connected to the same gizmo on/in the tank.

I don't know what kind of guy you are, but for me, even if I thought it was a one day job, I would leave a one day buffer.

You might look at rubber pieces on the fuel line collapsing as well. However, this would be noticeable much sooner than 3 or 7 miles.

Also what RASA says. But I'm not that kind of guy.

 

[69.5Mav]

63RancheroGuy

Did you put any carb cleaner in the gas tank? If you did it may have broke lose all the sediment in the tank.

Had the same problem with my 72 maverick. Dropped the tank and flushed it out with water. I got so much crap out of it it was amazing, rust mix with varnish. I got a ton of 3/8 to 1/2 inch chunks out.

Took the tank ( lots of rust on it, lived in a salt state for 6 years) to a radiator shop. They boiled it out, sealed it to prevent further rusting and put a drain plug in it.

Took more then a day though, about a week, while that was going on I put a boat gas tank in the trunk and ran a gas line to the tank line. Worked fine. Had to fill up alot but I have a ultra short commute, 3 miles each way. If you decide to use a boat tank drive real careful.

 

[ludwig]

If it's a plastic one, I'll melt on you after a short while because of the ethanol in the fuel. But clean the tank anyway.

 

[63RancheroGuy]

Thanks guys,

I didn't put any cleaner in the tank or the line "upstream" of the fuel pump, but I plan on driving this to work everyday once I get all the "kinks" worked out - so to speak.

Rasa - I'll try that trick and let you know.

Ludwig - it's a metal tank. Do you guys think I should be treating it with acid as is suggested by some? Looks like some suggest posphoric acid because it is less likely to open up unknown pin holes and less likely to rust later...apparently.

Thanks again,

Adam

 

[Bradbutlernc]

You may just have a little sediment in the tank like the other members said. Easiest way to tell is just to pull the tank (make sure its low on fuel) And give it a look to see whats in there. Ive boiled gas tanks out before to free the rust, works great and you can do it yourself to a certain extent. Ive found that water/vinegar or water/tide powder detergent works great for boiling tanks out. Tide detergent has some low level caustic stuff in it that will free up any major rust in there. Dumping pots of boiling water/detergent mix in the tank will help it free up some stuff. Just make sure you wash it out real good and dry it out before reassembly. Maybe try modifying the pickup tube to make it higher as a quick fix until you can pull the tank?

 

[JackFish]

If it's electrical, perhaps the coil is failing. Starts when cold then fails when it gets hot?

 

[jamyers]

Before you go and drop the tank, it's easy to confirm if it's starving for gas - just look down the throat and see if the accel pump is shooting anything when you open the throttle. If it's not, then something is starving it. I'd start at the front of the car and work back, cheaper/simpler before expensive/complicated. Float height and valve, fuel filter, fuel pump, blow out fuel lines.

Look around under the hood for anything unusual with the wiring. I had a '67 Mustang that drove me crazy with intermittent cutting out. Turned out to be a wire hanging down (added by the PO for some odd reason), and it'd swing back and ground out the ignition for a second, then move off and it'd run fine.

 

[dbowl]

Mine was doing the same thing. Going down the road, foot on the gas, and then, A BOG. Car would die. I found that mine was actually boiling fuel up out of the bowl and flooding the carb. Bypassed the spacer, and put two gaskets on each side of the spacer. Fixed my problem. Mine was during the summer months in Missouri though.

 

[sixpony]

Before you go and drop the tank, it's easy to confirm if it's starving for gas - just look down the throat and see if the accel pump is shooting anything when you open the throttle. If it's not, then something is starving it.
When I got my car it had been sitting for 10 yrs, I ran an aftermarket inline filter that I could remove and clean til I decided to clean the tank, I then discovered it had a small hole that had been "repaired" with a sheet metal screw and rubber washer, replaced the tank! Best $100 bucks I ever spent, think maybe the falcon tanks are a little higher, don't know how the ranchero tanks are set up, not having a trunk . The filter on the sending unit inside the tank is actually just a fine screen so it would take a lot of gunk to stop that up!

 

[Bradbutlernc]

I also removed the stock fuel filter (not by choice, but because i lost the little extension piece for the stock screw in style filter when rebuilding the carb :mrgreen: . I ended up with a better setup i think though, but it doesnt retain the stock look like i wanted. What you said about the rust flakes though makes me think maybe the filter is clogged as everyone else said before. although electrical is definatly possible, ive seen some weird electrical things with used cars. I would go over all the wiring, check your fuel pressure, and the fuel filter. Try to install a clear filter and see what builds up in it. If the fuel pressure and everything checks out good, you may have a float/needle valve problem, or maybe a more serious internal carb problem with clogged passages or something.


On the front of my carb i bought a 1/8 NPT fuel line adaptor from autozone, which runs to a clear filter in between the carb and the metal fuel line with 2 pieces of hose. I havent seen any clear filters for the regular screw in style. That setup will cost you about 6$ and save some frustration. Youll also be able to tell if the fuel is still flowing through the lines by popping the hood real quick and looking at the filter.

 

[jamyers]

Last time I looked, Ranchero fuel tanks were rare and not cheap. Looking just now, the only one I can find online is $399.

 

[sixpony]

Last time I looked, Ranchero fuel tanks were rare and not cheap. Looking just now, the only one I can find online is $399.

Wow, I guess exclusivity costs! That being the case if you think you have a dirty fuel problem I would remove the tank and use the tide trick with a pressure washer, Anyhoo, I think JC whitney used to sell a fuel tank sealer, but I'm a little skeptical about some of their products. A good cleaning might get you by for a long while!
Good luck!

 

[69.5Mav]

Any progress?

 

[63RancheroGuy]

Howdy,

Well, I took care of it this weekend - got the tank dropped and cleaned out. There was some rust and junk in there. Used the hot water tide method to get as much out as I could. Blew the lines from tank to filter, then filter to carburetor. Replaced the fuel pump filter. Put it all back together.

Drove it yesterday and today 30 miles or so, no dying problems so far. I hope that keeps up.

Thanks for the help and tips guys.

Adam

 

[69.5Mav]

Good going.

 

[jamyers]

Yay! If that fixed it, I'm glad to be wrong.