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Anonymous
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Lazy JW":1tfp8jtv said:
That's the WHOLE key, right there.
That's the WHOLE key, right there.
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Anonymous
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Okay, I checked out the spal fans and the electronics come as a bundle for $55. No problem. But then there are a jillion fans to choose from and I have no idea which fan to get. Huh?
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rbohm":sgaa4mm0 said:
That's the factory 3.0 Taurus fan, right there. Or a factory electric late model Mustang fan.
The 3.8 Taurus fan is a MAJOR player, it moves almost as much air as a Mark VIII fan (the mother of them all)
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Anonymous
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Great. Pusher or puller?
Another reason that would be wise to go to an electric fan is this.I have personally seen the results of loosing a blade off of a mechanical fan.One was a blade through the hood of the car.The other was a blade thruough a mans neck.
Leo
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I have been wanting to install a electric fan for a while now... I live in the city and every now and then get stuck in traffic and if its hot out the mech just cant keep up 
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Here is a good article that supports the hps gain myth of an electric fan: http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/efanmyth.htm
Ken
Ken
HUMINA
Active member
The article was an interesting read but it didn't seem to have any testing to prove the theory. I think it misses the point for old cars somewhat.
The biggest inherent problem with a fan on early motors is that they didn't have a clutch. So, you have a mechanical fan designed to flow enough air to keep the engine cool in traffic (low RPM). When RPM ramps up to 4k or so, the fan is working far harder than necessary and therefore robbing the engine of HP. The faster the fan blade spins the more power it consumes.
A mechanical fan running at idle is probably pulling one HP or less which would be basically the same as an electic fan.
IMO the issue is that mechanical fans rob power if they don't have a clutch. I would suspect that the difference between a clutched fan and a electric fan are minimal. (There I go making a statement with no testing to back it up)
The biggest inherent problem with a fan on early motors is that they didn't have a clutch. So, you have a mechanical fan designed to flow enough air to keep the engine cool in traffic (low RPM). When RPM ramps up to 4k or so, the fan is working far harder than necessary and therefore robbing the engine of HP. The faster the fan blade spins the more power it consumes.
A mechanical fan running at idle is probably pulling one HP or less which would be basically the same as an electic fan.
IMO the issue is that mechanical fans rob power if they don't have a clutch. I would suspect that the difference between a clutched fan and a electric fan are minimal. (There I go making a statement with no testing to back it up)
About 3 years ago Hot Rod(r)magazine ran an article on how much power a mechanical fan robbed from the engine.According to the article the power losses could be up to 30HP on some applications.Average loss worked out to IIRC was about 12 to 15 HP.These results were the result of chassis dyno tests.
Leo
Leo
HUMINA
Active member
I looked at hotrod.com at lunch and the best I could find was this:
"Electric Water Pump and Fan: We’ve made as much as 40 hp by removing the mechanical fan and water pump from an engine. Even with an oddball application, you can use a universal electric fan, and custom electric water pumps can be fabricated using universal remote pump motors from Meziere or CSI."
http://www.hotrod.com/tipstricks/84819/index1.html
That doesn't help much as it goes beyond what we are talking about.
I also looked at carcraft.com and found a brief page about fans:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/co ... ndex3.html
"A factory-style thermostatically controlled clutch-fan outperforms all other mechanical fan designs, cooling better while drawing less horsepower."
Both Hotrod and Car Craft seem to advocate electric fans as the generally better option but there wasn't any nice article online showing the improvements.
"Electric Water Pump and Fan: We’ve made as much as 40 hp by removing the mechanical fan and water pump from an engine. Even with an oddball application, you can use a universal electric fan, and custom electric water pumps can be fabricated using universal remote pump motors from Meziere or CSI."
http://www.hotrod.com/tipstricks/84819/index1.html
That doesn't help much as it goes beyond what we are talking about.
I also looked at carcraft.com and found a brief page about fans:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/co ... ndex3.html
"A factory-style thermostatically controlled clutch-fan outperforms all other mechanical fan designs, cooling better while drawing less horsepower."
Both Hotrod and Car Craft seem to advocate electric fans as the generally better option but there wasn't any nice article online showing the improvements.
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Anonymous
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I would like to run a clutch fan also. Does anyone run one on their 6? If so, what type do you have?
Thanks,
Ken
Thanks,
Ken
Howdy All:
Mark me in the column favoring electric fans over stock steel or aftermarket flex fans. I am still with a stock 4 blade steel fan on my 250. In addition to the advantages of electric fans already listed another use is that an electric fan, with a manual switch, can be used to cool the radiator and engine compartment even when the engine is not running. This would help to minimize heat soak at shut-off.
I did dig out an old Car Craft, 2/02 article, entitled "Electric Fan Dyno Test" by Matt King, where they chassis dyno tested a comparison of a '86 Mustang 5.0 with a OEM 5 blade flex fan to a Flex-a-lite Black Magic electric fan, rated a 14 amps draw when running. To quote, "saw a peak improvement of about 5 hp and 5 lb-ft of torque at the ear wheels. The power didn't just come at the peak either; the electric fan out powered the flex fan throughout the entire range of the dyno pull. That's not quite as much as we saw in our previous testing, but we'll take it."
The article did not say whether or not the fan came on during the dyno pulls or whether having the fan running added a greater pull from the extra load on the alternator.
The reference to previous testing was "Fan Power Test", May 00.
This article listed results from 3,500 rpm to 6,000 rpm. Greatest gains were at 3,750 and 4,750 rpms of 7 hp and 9 torque.
If anyone has gone the route of retro fitting a Taurus unit I'd sure like to see a new post on the process.
Adios, David
Mark me in the column favoring electric fans over stock steel or aftermarket flex fans. I am still with a stock 4 blade steel fan on my 250. In addition to the advantages of electric fans already listed another use is that an electric fan, with a manual switch, can be used to cool the radiator and engine compartment even when the engine is not running. This would help to minimize heat soak at shut-off.
I did dig out an old Car Craft, 2/02 article, entitled "Electric Fan Dyno Test" by Matt King, where they chassis dyno tested a comparison of a '86 Mustang 5.0 with a OEM 5 blade flex fan to a Flex-a-lite Black Magic electric fan, rated a 14 amps draw when running. To quote, "saw a peak improvement of about 5 hp and 5 lb-ft of torque at the ear wheels. The power didn't just come at the peak either; the electric fan out powered the flex fan throughout the entire range of the dyno pull. That's not quite as much as we saw in our previous testing, but we'll take it."
The article did not say whether or not the fan came on during the dyno pulls or whether having the fan running added a greater pull from the extra load on the alternator.
The reference to previous testing was "Fan Power Test", May 00.
This article listed results from 3,500 rpm to 6,000 rpm. Greatest gains were at 3,750 and 4,750 rpms of 7 hp and 9 torque.
If anyone has gone the route of retro fitting a Taurus unit I'd sure like to see a new post on the process.
Adios, David
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CZLN6":6i0lpnet said:
Supposedly pretty basic. A lot of late model mustang guys run them.....the 3.8 liter Taurus fan actually pulls more air than a stock mustang fan....GO FIGURE!
: May be too wide for a stock "down flow" radiator.
I have a brand new Chrysler mini van electric fan I bought on ebay for about $25, it is 14.5" by 16"!
That might fit your vintage cars a lot better. It moves MASSIVE amounts of air, too. (has its own built in shroud)
Someone want to try it?
This brings up another topic....Factory Vs. "Parts store" electric fans.
Factory fans = MOVIN' some air!
"Parts store" fans = junk by comparison
The minivan fan looks kind of like this, but the fan is all "inside" the perimeter of the shroud:
One thing you need to think about, test on chass dyno is not showing you all the gain that is going on. Another that I dont no if it was mentioned is there is also a gain in fuel milage (a big one) for the amount of power that you loose over a fixed fan & they way the electric operates.
And a nother thing, when you are running a motor as small as a I6 every little bit can mean alot. I personaly have seen some very interesting numbers on the dyno over fans, yes even some big numbers. And all though many would think a electric water pump is over kill it does add alot just like the fans. They make a aluminum radiator that has a water pump that bolts to it that works real good. You would be surprized on what 15 to 30 hp will do for a motor that is low HP. A test was done on a I6 where they just took the fan/water pump belt off, it gained .60 in the 1/4. Thats over a half a second
Jess
And a nother thing, when you are running a motor as small as a I6 every little bit can mean alot. I personaly have seen some very interesting numbers on the dyno over fans, yes even some big numbers. And all though many would think a electric water pump is over kill it does add alot just like the fans. They make a aluminum radiator that has a water pump that bolts to it that works real good. You would be surprized on what 15 to 30 hp will do for a motor that is low HP. A test was done on a I6 where they just took the fan/water pump belt off, it gained .60 in the 1/4. Thats over a half a second
Jess
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Anonymous
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about what cfm is one of our stock fans pulling at idle?
HUMINA":3tdt3vvq said:
So now we're up to 40 hp :roll:
I work in sawmill maintenance and have had opportunity to work with various blower systems. I can tell you that a 40 hp electric motor will pull a REALLY BIG fan that moves a WHOLE BUNCH of air. But not quite as much hot air as this
I'm still in favor of electric fans. Might even put one on my pickup someday. But my expectations are going to be a bit more reasonable than some of the nonsense I'm reading here.
Joe
Lazy JW":2ao3ljpm said:HUMINA":2ao3ljpm said:
So now we're up to 40 hp :roll:
I work in sawmill maintenance and have had opportunity to work with various blower systems. I can tell you that a 40 hp electric motor will pull a REALLY BIG fan that moves a WHOLE BUNCH of air. But not quite as much hot air as this
I'm still in favor of electric fans. Might even put one on my pickup someday. But my expectations are going to be a bit more reasonable than some of the nonsense I'm reading here.
Joe
dont forget that the 40hp gain was likely on a big block engine. a water pump does require a fair amount of power to turn. will a six gain 40 hp by removing the fan and pump? not likely, but 20-25 hp gains wouldnt be out of the question. remember also that until 1972 engines were tested on factory dynos with no oil pump, water pump, or any other accessories mounted to the engine. in 1972 the SAE required that these items be installed to get the net horse power that these engines produced, which is part of the big drop in power ratings from the previous year.
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LUCKY13":269besda said:
VERY believable.
My turbo 200 drag car runs an electric fan (from a firebird) and a 100 amp Ford alternator. I have ONE switch that controls BOTH the fan relay and the field circuit on the alt. When I switch it off right before I stage, the rpms jump up 150.
If I forget to turn it off, I lose a whole .5 or .6 in the 1/4. I should have wired it so they both cut out at W.O.T.
It really does make that much difference.
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