if youre looking at dumping the scarebird setup you might beable use bearing to make the v8 rotor fit the 6 spindle i have found a inner bearing and grease seal that should work just fine but i have not found a outer bearing that works yet. look at timken set27 tho the outer race is will not work it will fit into the stock race for the v8 bearing and it should fit on the spindle nicely. im in the process of gathering some stuff to test this but i need a spindle and v8 rotor etc.
back to the basics...
- Thread starter MPGmustang
- Start date
looks like the metal roller wheel noise is gone now... drove it to work, I'll check the bearing again next week end and see if my dremel work will hold up.
I also took the time to swap the electric fan with my old 17inch v8 6 blade rigid mech fan. the noise of air moving is back
never thought I'd welcome that, but the heat is gone! wow what an eye opener... it heats up on idle to 195* with the AC on full blast dont' know if it will go more as the stop lights aren't long enough but once reving it really pulls in air and cools it back down to 180*!, can't wait for a fan shroud for idle. I will try on freeway speeds today and see what happens. there is a difference in acceleration, but I don't mind the comprimise. I think once I have the shroud I'll call this one finished
don't get me wrong on the scarebird, it works great, it's the spindle bearings and hubs I'm against... scarebird is taking the fall because of them... I'm not going to cobble a solution to fixed my cobbled problem... if you get what I mean.
what is the coldest plug I can get? and where are they? who sells them? I have looked into the plugs before but just dont' know where I can get them...
I also took the time to swap the electric fan with my old 17inch v8 6 blade rigid mech fan. the noise of air moving is back
never thought I'd welcome that, but the heat is gone! wow what an eye opener... it heats up on idle to 195* with the AC on full blast dont' know if it will go more as the stop lights aren't long enough but once reving it really pulls in air and cools it back down to 180*!, can't wait for a fan shroud for idle. I will try on freeway speeds today and see what happens. there is a difference in acceleration, but I don't mind the comprimise. I think once I have the shroud I'll call this one finisheddon't get me wrong on the scarebird, it works great, it's the spindle bearings and hubs I'm against... scarebird is taking the fall because of them... I'm not going to cobble a solution to fixed my cobbled problem... if you get what I mean.
what is the coldest plug I can get? and where are they? who sells them? I have looked into the plugs before but just dont' know where I can get them...
yes water wetter and 50/50 coolant are used... my problem on heat I think was not enough air...
Double check for a vacuum leak if you are running hot with those timing numbers (9* at idle everything hooked up). A vacuum leak can heat up an engine real fast. I know it's running better, but just double check you aren't hiding one problem with a solution elsewhere. I've seen my manifold glowing bright red due to a vacuum leak.
Its 9* with vac disconnected and plugged,
So no one disagrees with 3.8 gear with bigger tire??
So no one disagrees with 3.8 gear with bigger tire??
sorry the above reply was from cell phone...
It's very possible I'm lean, in colder winter I was 12.1 AFR on the dyno with 58 jets, I have put the 59 jets back in which IIRC was around 11.7 at WOT, would hot air make it lean out? I thought hot would richen it...
swapped the rear gear and locker today, I guess I miss understood the price. the charge $100 for swaping in the 3.8's and an open, they didn't charge me for the labor, and I got a new 3.8 ring and pinion which is usually $185 a set. he'll sell my 4.10 and locker to cover labor... I'm sure he made out like a bandit... oh well It's done. this lowered my speed by ~250rpm @ 70mph.
then headed on over for tires, I only swapped the rear tires, went from 195/70-14 to 225/70-14, should be down ~400rpm from the 4.10's... maybe I should have gone 3.5's...
I think I discovered why the rear lug nuts fell off... the nuts are stripped, they won't torque down properly... just found the front drivers side coiling on the threads, so I ordered 16 sheath nuts... I ain't playing games with these anymore... out with the old... the studs look good.
for the setting and loading the bearings all sound about right.
the AC at 70mph with the mech fan cools nicely, no issues, only on slow engine rpm's, maybe I can fit a few 'assist' fans infront on the ac condenser...
Xtasy, we will have to agree to disagree... sure more power from the 350cfm... that I understand... but I'm looking at drivability on the streets and it just bogs at stop lights where I have to rev it up to get it going. sure I can sink $XXX into the carb to be perfect, but it's easier to limit HP and heat while increase econ with a smaller carb. it's basicly simple.
simple ignition fix will be sending to FSD... max of 33* mech and static, and total of 12* vacuum... max of 45* timing. I've been reading what ford guy's do with thier HEI's and just about all like this.
It's very possible I'm lean, in colder winter I was 12.1 AFR on the dyno with 58 jets, I have put the 59 jets back in which IIRC was around 11.7 at WOT, would hot air make it lean out? I thought hot would richen it...
swapped the rear gear and locker today, I guess I miss understood the price. the charge $100 for swaping in the 3.8's and an open, they didn't charge me for the labor, and I got a new 3.8 ring and pinion which is usually $185 a set. he'll sell my 4.10 and locker to cover labor... I'm sure he made out like a bandit... oh well It's done. this lowered my speed by ~250rpm @ 70mph.
then headed on over for tires, I only swapped the rear tires, went from 195/70-14 to 225/70-14, should be down ~400rpm from the 4.10's... maybe I should have gone 3.5's...
I think I discovered why the rear lug nuts fell off... the nuts are stripped, they won't torque down properly... just found the front drivers side coiling on the threads, so I ordered 16 sheath nuts... I ain't playing games with these anymore... out with the old... the studs look good.
for the setting and loading the bearings all sound about right.
the AC at 70mph with the mech fan cools nicely, no issues, only on slow engine rpm's, maybe I can fit a few 'assist' fans infront on the ac condenser...
Xtasy, we will have to agree to disagree... sure more power from the 350cfm... that I understand... but I'm looking at drivability on the streets and it just bogs at stop lights where I have to rev it up to get it going. sure I can sink $XXX into the carb to be perfect, but it's easier to limit HP and heat while increase econ with a smaller carb. it's basicly simple.
simple ignition fix will be sending to FSD... max of 33* mech and static, and total of 12* vacuum... max of 45* timing. I've been reading what ford guy's do with thier HEI's and just about all like this.
You have persued this with a lot of intellegience.
Understood, 26.4 " tall unloaded 225/70 14 tires make 20.23 mph per 1000 rpm in 1:1 4th.
As for carb, fair call, its totally your ride.
Without the whole megala of chat. The whole premise, though, is that low speed airflow gets improved, and if the jetting is right, there shouldn't be an off idle problems. Certainly not if the ignition advance is trimmed to suit. David Vizard saw a 68% fuel economy improvement with a 2300 series Holley over the stock, economicall 5200 Holley Weber on his c4 auto Pinto according to an early book, and said the 2-bb was a lot cleaner than the 32/36/5200 style stock carb. He used 16 to 19 thou restricted PVCR's, a really low 2.0 Power Valve, and 65 jets on a 130 hp 2000 cc engine.
About that time, Ford also ditched the 2-bbl Holley Weber 6500 series carbs in 1984 for a single Carter 1-bbl for HSC 2300 OHV and 2300 cc Ranger/Mustang versions due to emissions.
I just can't for the life of me understand why anyone would go down on CFM, via any of the other carbs, as the results will be inferior. I know what you've seen with earlier work Mike oversaw, but those difference are most likely to be ignition optimazation which is the difference in performance.
Anyway, go for it dude, lookes like your quickly sorting the underhood temperatures and have a real good handle on the gearing. Excellent work.
Understood, 26.4 " tall unloaded 225/70 14 tires make 20.23 mph per 1000 rpm in 1:1 4th.
As for carb, fair call, its totally your ride.
Without the whole megala of chat. The whole premise, though, is that low speed airflow gets improved, and if the jetting is right, there shouldn't be an off idle problems. Certainly not if the ignition advance is trimmed to suit. David Vizard saw a 68% fuel economy improvement with a 2300 series Holley over the stock, economicall 5200 Holley Weber on his c4 auto Pinto according to an early book, and said the 2-bb was a lot cleaner than the 32/36/5200 style stock carb. He used 16 to 19 thou restricted PVCR's, a really low 2.0 Power Valve, and 65 jets on a 130 hp 2000 cc engine.
About that time, Ford also ditched the 2-bbl Holley Weber 6500 series carbs in 1984 for a single Carter 1-bbl for HSC 2300 OHV and 2300 cc Ranger/Mustang versions due to emissions.
I just can't for the life of me understand why anyone would go down on CFM, via any of the other carbs, as the results will be inferior. I know what you've seen with earlier work Mike oversaw, but those difference are most likely to be ignition optimazation which is the difference in performance.
Anyway, go for it dude, lookes like your quickly sorting the underhood temperatures and have a real good handle on the gearing. Excellent work.
I could always try the ignition recurve to see if that's affecting hesitation. I should do it anyways so why not before i get a smaller carb.
I'm still amazed at how much air is moving with that mech fan...
I'm still amazed at how much air is moving with that mech fan...
okay, coming down to dependability, the front wheels are on strong, no play in wheels but the steering is very loose, I jacked it up and turned the tires by hand and it looks like play in the idler arm, almost there... still keeping an eye on that spindle.
swaped the shank nuts to new ones, guess they are 1/2 by 20 pitch, any ways they had packs of 4 at o-riely's on the shelfs, who would have thought... all wheels are now torqued properly and studs are good.
Think I solved my oil issues, swapped to 20w50 oil (it was due) seems to help in the heat
looks like my speedo is about 10% off now, so speed limit plug 10%... not too bad. if 21 tooth gear, then a 23 tooth gear might do good to keep my setup. for now... better than teh 28% too fast issue
I'm going to a different shop and have them do the wheel alignment right, I don't like the fact that it's not tracking straight, and that I have to hold it to make it straight.
sad thing is, I know it's going to break again... and I have suspision it's going to be in the steering area... I'll see if tightening that idler arm helps... might need a new bushing ( at least I hope it's that simple)
it does stil ping so I'm taking it easy at higher speeds, looked into an 'adjustable vacuum canister' with a limiting plate to limit max advance, but can't seem to find any that advertise that plate, http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/joevet ... urve.shtml look at the last picture on this link, that's what I need, it will limit total vacuum from 20* down to (or as low as) 12* and anywhere inbetween.
that's about it, just have to fix
speedo,
idler arm,
ping at higher speeds (higher gears),
hesitation going from stops... this is a biggy as I can stall at a green light and I don't think I'm that bad at the clutch...
extasy, sometimes I wish I was as smart (and rich) as David Vizard... Think I'm finally realizing I'm not
oh well...
but the steering is very loose, I jacked it up and turned the tires by hand and it looks like play in the idler arm, almost there... still keeping an eye on that spindle.swaped the shank nuts to new ones, guess they are 1/2 by 20 pitch, any ways they had packs of 4 at o-riely's on the shelfs, who would have thought... all wheels are now torqued properly and studs are good.
Think I solved my oil issues, swapped to 20w50 oil (it was due) seems to help in the heat
looks like my speedo is about 10% off now, so speed limit plug 10%... not too bad. if 21 tooth gear, then a 23 tooth gear might do good to keep my setup. for now... better than teh 28% too fast issue
I'm going to a different shop and have them do the wheel alignment right, I don't like the fact that it's not tracking straight, and that I have to hold it to make it straight.
sad thing is, I know it's going to break again... and I have suspision it's going to be in the steering area... I'll see if tightening that idler arm helps... might need a new bushing ( at least I hope it's that simple)
it does stil ping so I'm taking it easy at higher speeds, looked into an 'adjustable vacuum canister' with a limiting plate to limit max advance, but can't seem to find any that advertise that plate, http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/joevet ... urve.shtml look at the last picture on this link, that's what I need, it will limit total vacuum from 20* down to (or as low as) 12* and anywhere inbetween.
that's about it, just have to fix
speedo,
idler arm,
ping at higher speeds (higher gears),
hesitation going from stops... this is a biggy as I can stall at a green light and I don't think I'm that bad at the clutch...
extasy, sometimes I wish I was as smart (and rich) as David Vizard... Think I'm finally realizing I'm not
oh well...
MPGmustang":14i5xrha said:...
extasy, sometimes I wish I was as smart (and rich) as David Vizard... Think I'm finally realizing I'm not
I'll let you into a little secret...he may be rich now, but he started off really small. And smartness is foundational on not forgetting the basics, but using them as a plat form for further success.
Vizards greatest exploits arguably where when he was poor. One time, he couldn't afford a 1275 Mini Cooper S cylinder block or even a 1275 Morris 1300 block, so he grabed an 1100 Austin block, offset bored the thing to take low deck Hilman Imp pistons, and found the resulting 1251 cc engine was almost as good for a lot less dough. Same with his induction systems...the 135 hp a the the front wheels 1380cc Mini his daughter Samantha drove at the drags was just a basic scrambling of bits he'd tried over the years. A true 100 mph 1/4 mile, 14 second car. And he never even made big bore four cylinder engines, he contended with air flow improvements first. He found that all the big bore engines were made for expert drivers who had years of experience, and his little engines would eclipse them for reliabity because he understood how to set them up.
And he's soo darn funny. The Mini books on A series engines showed most of his nutty professor schstic, especially when he concluded that milling certain domed Mini Miglia pistons might catastrphically reduce compression ratio. Or that it was nothing to find two engine dynos differed 40 hp on a basic 200 hp V8, and so it was better to quarter mile a car and use a little math to cross check the dyno. Or that by putting carb fuel tank foam, a standpipe and scavange pump into a Holley 2300/4150 series carb, one off roader was able to stand the car up on a 45 degree angle and still have it idle properly.
I'm seeing visions now of four Mini pistons over milled, and gaining 200 hp after a weeks worth of dyno work, or a bunch of Baja racers operating at 45 degree angles in an Icelandic volcanic crater.
Most of his work was flow bench related, he's always been, um, het up on air flow. The fact that he's lived in two continents ment that he'd have a stock 1971 1600 OHC Cortina 2 door in England, and a 1972 2000 OHC Pinto in California's APT HQ. Each car had the same basic Ford stuff under the hood (emissions, air con, C4 auto and 3.4:1 diff in the case of his US ride), but he'd rework bits with his flow bench, measuring the improvement, and then eventually dyno test it for Popular Hot Rod or whatever car mag he freelanced for. Same when getting 65 imperal mpg at 65 mph out of his 1275 Mini Clubman. A car that ran a 270 degree cam, a 45 mm carb and it would still make excellenet power.
My favorite though is the fact that he thought cylinder to cylinder flow equalisation was the key to good performance. He'd pick up an obscure Aussie intake manifold made by Lynx, and test it, and suddenly say it was almost as good as the stock Pinto 2000 item. You'd get the idea that he's just like you Richard, he'd use the stock part first, work it within a thousanth of its life, and totally mess up someone with a bigger, seamingly better combination. I've seen the work you've done with drag factors, and your just replicating what he did, but your further along the golden path.
turbo2256b
Well-known member
Wheel brgs:
What country were they made in. I have replaced brgs on my 87 Grand Marquis. Front tires are 285 30 18s wheels 18 x 10. Just to give an idea of stress on them. The previous set lasted for close to 100K. Replacements lasted less than 2 months. Removed them looked at the wear on them and noticed they looked like chrome plated brass possibly. Never seen anything like it before and I have pulled brgs from all types of machinery some looked like cracked nuts. Never anything like that. Made shure I got some good Timkin US brgs they have been in for over a year now no issues.
What country were they made in. I have replaced brgs on my 87 Grand Marquis. Front tires are 285 30 18s wheels 18 x 10. Just to give an idea of stress on them. The previous set lasted for close to 100K. Replacements lasted less than 2 months. Removed them looked at the wear on them and noticed they looked like chrome plated brass possibly. Never seen anything like it before and I have pulled brgs from all types of machinery some looked like cracked nuts. Never anything like that. Made shure I got some good Timkin US brgs they have been in for over a year now no issues.
turbo2256b
Well-known member
Things I have seen wrong installing brgs. Not replacing brg cups (races) just install new brg. Installed new races but dammaged race seat in the hub knocking them out. With out filing out upset edges race will sit crooked causing premature wear. Races not driven in all the way to the seat. Just the other day worked on one were the hub was beat so bad the race was loose in it but the owner had replaced the brg and race anyway broght it to me thinking something else was wrong like the brake.
turbo2256b
Well-known member
Dont realy know much about your engine condition or modifications. I will say that I disconnect vacuum advance or MAP and get my mechanical or equivelent correct first. It also includes dialing A/F ratio then move on to ad in vacuum advance or MAP. Most today Vacuum advance 10* or less. Depending on cam and such vacuum at which it cuts in needs adjusted too.
8) X, i have to agree with you that david vizard was quite brilliant. he was one of my teachers when i was in college here in tucson, and i got to check out his pinto. he was still sorting out a few issues with the webers he installed at the time, but that car would run like a scalded ape. as for him being quite the character, there again i agree with you on that.
You could use a bushing or even slip on some rubber vacuum line, onto the VA cans advance arm to limit total amount of vacuum advance if you think it's pulling in too much. The part in the picture looks like something you could also make.
made some progress... still tweaking things to make it a better driver.
for the little plate in that pic/link I just used a washer... vacuum advance is now roughly 12* (guess work here). Some discoveries, more inital timing the more the AC compressor would drop the RPM, the less inital timing the less it would drop the RPM. Examples, 14* inital timing, set idle to 800rpm AC kicks off and idle goes up to 1400rpm. but with 9* initial and 750rpm AC idle it goes up to 900-950 rpm idle.
talked to FSD and he's helping out Luke here on the forum and he mentioned the stock DUI from performance distristributors has 20* mech @ 2000 rpm and 24* @ 3000rpm, it's great for racing but horrible for driving... and this causes the pinging... picked up mr gasket spring/weight set #929 and now testing some stronger springs.
it was not the idler arm, it was the center link being loose on passenger side and play in the steering box. tightened them both up and now it almost tracks perfectly straight.
the wheel bearings I got this time were ?MOOG? type bearings, IDK I threw the box away, I'll look for Timkin next time... yeah I'm still keeping an eye on those front wheel bearings, Think I'll take them out in 4 months to look for any kind of wearing signs, if they last that long.
Thanks guy for all the tips, appricate this community... one thing is for sure, when the car breaks it BREAKS! and that is not reliable or in any way dependable.
for the little plate in that pic/link I just used a washer... vacuum advance is now roughly 12* (guess work here). Some discoveries, more inital timing the more the AC compressor would drop the RPM, the less inital timing the less it would drop the RPM. Examples, 14* inital timing, set idle to 800rpm AC kicks off and idle goes up to 1400rpm. but with 9* initial and 750rpm AC idle it goes up to 900-950 rpm idle.
talked to FSD and he's helping out Luke here on the forum and he mentioned the stock DUI from performance distristributors has 20* mech @ 2000 rpm and 24* @ 3000rpm, it's great for racing but horrible for driving... and this causes the pinging... picked up mr gasket spring/weight set #929 and now testing some stronger springs.
it was not the idler arm, it was the center link being loose on passenger side and play in the steering box. tightened them both up and now it almost tracks perfectly straight.
the wheel bearings I got this time were ?MOOG? type bearings, IDK I threw the box away, I'll look for Timkin next time...
yeah I'm still keeping an eye on those front wheel bearings, Think I'll take them out in 4 months to look for any kind of wearing signs, if they last that long.Thanks guy for all the tips, appricate this community... one thing is for sure, when the car breaks it BREAKS! and that is not reliable or in any way dependable.
Anyone local that can tune a car? I give up... tempted to trade for reliable daily... venting right now.... :arg:
okay, got it drivable again, put on stronger springs... makes a difference.
alright back to the drawing board on tuning...
DUI distributor
adjustable vacuum advance canister (how fast it will advance not how much)
washer to limit vacuum advance 10* (rough guestimate) this is currently out. until I'm confident to try it again.
holley 350 cfm carb, 59 jets
okay, I set timing, with stronger springs and initial is ~15*
I have hesitaion from a stop, is this timing or carb? and what would I adjust/change?
this i without AC running, once it's tuned I'll 'compensate' for AC if it needs it.
alright back to the drawing board on tuning...
DUI distributor
adjustable vacuum advance canister (how fast it will advance not how much)
washer to limit vacuum advance 10* (rough guestimate) this is currently out. until I'm confident to try it again.
holley 350 cfm carb, 59 jets
okay, I set timing, with stronger springs and initial is ~15*
I have hesitaion from a stop, is this timing or carb? and what would I adjust/change?
this i without AC running, once it's tuned I'll 'compensate' for AC if it needs it.
Hesitation on start can be a couple things. I'm not familiar with your carb, so I'm not sure if it's got a similar setup, but I had an issue for a good long while that ultimately was the acceleration pump being out of adjustment, basically it gives an extra squirt of fuel when you start to prevent that flat spot.
I have reservations about tossing in a DUI dizzy without isolating this issue first. You could spend hundreds of dollars, hours of time, and end up with the same issue.
I have reservations about tossing in a DUI dizzy without isolating this issue first. You could spend hundreds of dollars, hours of time, and end up with the same issue.
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