Blowing 3 Gees on my Six

[Luke76]

Yes Mugsy, Jon was the guy I got. A real crank. I hadn't read the other threads so I was unprepared. What's worse, they must be on the east coast or something, since the call came in at like 6 in the morning. I wasn't even awake, and I'd hardly opened my eyes and gotten out the words "Ford Six" before he lit into me. I got out of bed, and there I am buck naked, pacing back and forth in the hall outside our bedroom, having a heated argument with this guy at the ass-crack of dawn, so God only knows what the wife thought about that. She's been pretty tolerant of this Granada business, but still...

RE: Mr. Explorer, you raise a good point. In fact just the other day I was counting up all the shekels I've been spending and it prompted me to go back again and take a look at the CI head, and see where I stood. Let's say you buy an "assembled" aluminum head, which includes a valve job, and you get it milled to your desired C/R but skip the option of any porting. That comes to $1,660 plus you need to add $285 for the intake manifold, so you're looking at basically $1,950. Porting adds several hundred dollars more if you choose it.

Mike's head prices include valves (but not springs), so to compare with what I've done:
$100 - price of head from salvage yard
$1,200 - porting and milling and valve jobs
$160 - stainless valves
$45 - 2V adapter

That comes to $1,500. If you already have a head laying around, or in your vehicle, I guess you could save another hundred bucks or so.

In the end I guess the difference is around $500 at the closest, but it could be more depending on the options you choose. Of course price isn't the only comparison. Mike's flow testing has shown an un-ported aluminum head already out-performs a ported large log head. So you're getting more performance for that extra $500.

It's true, after you spend all this amount $500 doesn't sound like much. I'd say it comes down to what kind of performance you're wanting. If I had been building a Mustang, instead of a Granada, and if as you say the availability issues were resolved, and if I knew then what I know now, I'd probably have taken a harder look at the CI head.


Luke

 

[MPGmustang]

I guess not only the CL Alum head but what about the other mods like the gas pedal/linkage, head bolts, gaskets, and even more time geting it perfect. the log head will bolt right up, and use most/all of the parts you already have. there will still might be hidden expenses on the large log too that hasn't come up yet. But I think your doing a great Job.

I know I woudn't mind a CI Alum Head.

 

[kevinl1058]

Luke,
Sorry to hear about your negative experience with PER. They were great with both my dad and I with our builds. They would often call us both down to seethe various stages of the engine builds. I have had similiar experiences with other build with poor shop communication, but since I referred them to you I wish that it would have turned out better.Here is a pic of the headwork they did for me. GOod luck on the rest of your build. KEv
http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f345/ ... ure679.jpg

 

[Luke76]

MPG, in my case I decided to use aftermarket head studs (ARP), probably a new throttle linkage (can't say for sure until I see the carb), no to mention kickdown, and I'll have to replace the head gasket anyhow. But you're right, a person could use the stock bolts and other such. For sure there are a lot of incidental expenses no matter what, and it's hard to visualize them all at the beginning. It's easy to see the big items but the small stuff really adds up once you get going. Gaskets, new air cleaner for the new carb, engine paint, etc, etc... Not all of it might be strictly necessary, but once you start digging in you start thinking, "well, since I have it apart I might as well do this and that too..."

But the primary problem with the aluminum head in my mind, is that it's a very long wait to get one.

Kev, no worries on the recommendation. The truth is they did good work and having them do the job saved me all the hassle of shipping a head to Arizona and back. They are a quality shop and other than the port divider and the fact they milled the head without consulting me on the amount, I'm generally happy with how it turned out. The problem was just the lack of communication, and maybe I should have been more of a hard-ass about it.

The truth is, and I hate to say this, but you have a really sweet ride, and when they saw your Falcon it probably looked like a really cool project to be involved with. On the other hand, when I tell them this head is going in a Granada, I think eyes roll and it just becomes work.

All I can say is this has been a really big learning experience. As another example of how important it is to make absolutely sure you are getting what you think you're getting, when I bought the cylinder head sight-unseen from the Engine Rebuilders Supply, I specifically asked for and was told I was getting a 78 or later head (D8 casting). I tried to be very clear about this but they delivered the head directly to PER and I never actually inspected it. Three months later, I get the head back and of course it's a D5 casting. Yeah, I guess it's a small thing in the big scheme of the universe, but so unnecessary to screw up. A lot of this was my fault for not being more of a stickler with everyone, and being too willing to take people at their word.


Luke

 

[kevinl1058]

Yeah,
I was on site and inspected the head and block my self.. I actually took the head with me and had them deliver the block to PER.. I had some paint work done on the Falcon and simply told the painter that when they see the car its either going to be who did your work and there will be a positive review or a negative one.. So I brought the car back until it was done right. Nothing wrong with being a hard ass... Are you going to the FOrd Show in August down at Woodburn. If so I'll catch up with yo then.
KEv

 

[Luke76]

My friendly mail-lady just delivered the carb! Looks nice. The only problem I see immediately off the bat is that I'm going to need some kind of spacer between the carb and 2V plate, otherwise the throttle lever hits the top of the log manifold. I see CI sells a 1/2" spacer, but my measurements show I actually need something a tad higher. Maybe I can grind off a small bit from the throttle linkage, and maybe all the gaskets will give me just enough height? I guess I would use a gasket between the 2V adapter and the spacer, and then again between the spacer and the carb? The 2V adapter is epoxied to the log so no gasket there.

The carb comes with a choke tube but I don't think it will be long enough to reach the headers. I suppose I'll just want to buy a choke stove kit. More incidentals! Not to mention I'll need some bolts for the carb, it didn't come with any and they'd probably be too short even if it did, once I use the spacer. I assume these are something I can cheap out on and get at the hardware store, surely there is no need for special jillion-dollar ARP studs for a carb?

It's still unclear whether my stock throttle cable will work... won't know till I get the head fitted. I might just order a Lokar cable now in case, I can always return it if I don't need it. I haven't figure out what I'm going to do about the kick-down linkage, I have the weird bar assembly. Maybe I'll get uber lucky and it will just work?

Hey Kev, I didn't know about the Woodburn show, thanks for pointing it out. I don't know if I'll make it or not, but if I do I'll let you know. I'd certainly like to see your Falcon sometime. Hopefully by August 15 I'll be in the middle of a head swap!


Luke

 

[MPGmustang]

"well, since I have it apart I might as well do this and that too..."

Yeah, I'm kinda glad I did tho, because in the end it wouldn't be what I wanted, i'm very intrested to hear about your 2bbl running on your car with the stock bottom. the roller rockers will help raise AVG power, are you sticking with the 1.6 ratio? or going higher?

Will you replace the rest of the exhaust?

 

[Luke76]

Hi Richard, I originally ordered the RAS roller-tipped rockers from Mike but after a while of them being back-ordered he told me RAS is no longer making the rocker arms. The RAS rockers were 1.6 ratio. Instead Mike decided to have his own CI rockers manufactured, he is going to offer them in several ratios but the first available will be 1.65, and that's what I'm theoretically going to be getting. I know he has been expecting them for some time now but I gather they are still not available, so who really knows when they'll show up.

Yes, I am replacing the entire exhaust. Like you I went with the CI stainless headers. On my build I'm using a Y-adapter to a single 2.25" exhaust. I'm concerned about the headers clearing the AC compressor bracket but I'm saving the exhaust to last so I still haven't waded into all that yet. Muffler selection has been really hard as well, I want something quiet since this is supposed to be a sleeper, but not something that sounds Asian. For now I have a generic Summit Racing turbo muffler but who knows, it might be changed out at a later date. The other muffler I considered was a Flowmaster 70 Series, but even there I'm not sure if it might be too loud.

I am still looking around for someone who might be renting shop space, if I can find that before I do the swap then I will pull the block, swap the cam, and probably put in new pistons while I'm at it. But it doesn't look likely I'll find such a space, and even if I do I won't be taking the block to a machine shop, so no decking for now. This means I won't be getting anywhere close to the 9.3 C/R you achieved.

All the same, even with the stock lower end I'm hoping to see a noticeable difference from the head swap and exhaust upgrade, but all remains to be seen...


Luke

 

[Luke76]

My Pony carb came with an "instructional" DVD that consists mostly of footage shot in 1989 of Jon Enyeart describing the installation of the 2100. It's pretty dry but actually had some fairly informative moments scattered throughout. I gather this is the guy I talked to naked at 6 in the morning a few weeks ago... Well, what can I say, at least he bothered to call me.

One thing watching this video made me think about is my arrangement for my PCV valve. It looks like Ford was using a special carb spacer with a PCV fitting built-in. As mentioned earlier I'm going to need a spacer for my carb anyway, I was considering the Classic Inlines ABS spacer/insulators, but they have no such port. Just by doing a preliminary Google search I've come up with a few 65-66 Mustang spacers on eBay, that have the PCV nipple, but they're running $50 plus and don't look to be in that hot of condition either. Are there other cars/years I could be searching for that have the Autolite 2100 spacer that includes the PCV fitting?

And I don't suppose it would be appropriate to pull vacuum for the PCV system from the manifold?


Luke

 

[kevinl1058]

Luke,
You have 2 choices either use the manifold port or run a breather as I did.
Kev

 

[Luke76]

Hmm, I think I might have gotten myself turned around. I have two holes in the valve cover, I was intending to put one to vacuum through the PCV valve, and on the other hole I was going to put a breather. I guess I was thinking air would be coming in through the breather, and sweeping the gases out the other side through the PCV valve. But maybe all this arrangement would do is create a big vacuum leak? Maybe breathers are only for those cases where PCV is not implemented, and then the crankcase gases just exit through the breather? I guess in that case the second hole would just be plugged with an oil filler cap?

I think I'd like to use PCV one way or another. Since I have to use a carb spacer anyway, maybe it makes sense to look for one with a PCV nipple. Otherwise it sounds like you're saying I can hook it up straight to manifold vacuum - my only concern there was that the fittings on my manifold vacuum "distribution-dealy" are pretty small in diameter, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to clog them by running oily crankcase gases through them? (By vacuum distribution-dealy what I mean is I have a single vacuum port in the intake manifold, into this screws the dealy, which is a hollow bar that has lots of little vacuum nipples coming off it, in various sizes).

Luke

 

[bubba22349]

Just by doing a preliminary Google search I've come up with a few 65-66 Mustang spacers on eBay, that have the PCV nipple, but they're running $50 plus and don't look to be in that hot of condition either. Are there other cars/years I could be searching for that have the Autolite 2100 spacer that includes the PCV fitting?

You will find these spacers with the PCV nipple on most any Ford model with a V8 and 2V carb i.e. 289, 302, 351 W & C versions, sbf and the FE 352, 360, & some 390's with a 2V carb form the mid 1960's up into the early 80's

 

[Luke76]

Thanks Bubba, I was able to pick up a nice-looking spacer on eBay from a 289 V8, total price including shipping was $18. There are plenty of others out there, not even in as good of shape, going for $50-$80, so it pays to look around.

Ok then, one of the holes in my valve cover is going to have a PCV valve with a hose running to this spacer. I'm still not sure whether it is ok to have a breather on the second valve-cover hole? Or if it would be better to simply plug it with a non-breathing oil cap?


Luke

 

[bubba22349]

Ok then, one of the holes in my valve cover is going to have a PCV valve with a hose running to this spacer. I'm still not sure whether it is ok to have a breather on the second valve-cover hole? Or if it would be better to simply plug it with a non-breathing oil cap?

Short answer is Yes. you should have the breather cap at the front of the valve cover (open system) with the PCV at the rear. If you want it to be a (closed system) more like the factory then you use a breather cap with a nipple and run hose into bottom of the air cleaner.

 

[Luke76]

Thanks Bubba! I think I'll just use a breather at front instead of messing with a nipple on the air cleaner. Alright, one more problem solved! So many more to go...


Luke

 

[bubba22349]

You’re welcome Luke Forgot to mention that some of the PCV spacer's may have smaller throttle bore holes than others. So with the big carb you will want to check to make sure that the throttle blades will clear when opened up all the way with out touching if not you just need to do a little bit of grinding work to it. One other note make sure when you set up the throttle linkage that you have some one step on the pedal (all the way to the floor) can’t tell you how many cars have tuned were the carbs weren’t opening up all the way and losing some performance. I do like the mods you are doing think should be a good combo I have a 77 Maverick with the 250 C4 did not check the axle gear though guess is about a 2.79 or 3.00. Has about 23,000 on and it's all stock except that I ported the head one day just for the heck of it while doing some other work. Would really like to do the bigger carb swap too. It pulls very well up to about 65 than it starts to lie down some. I am limited on some types of mods by were I live (Socal the home of the original Smog Nazi's). On any 1976 and up car or truck here it has to pass a visual as well as tailpipe test or else would need to keep two sets of parts and swap them on and off at smog test time. Good luck on your build.

 

[Luke76]

I'm editing this post... For a while I had myself convinced that PER attached my 2V carb adapter backwards onto my cylinder head, but they didn't. So rant deleted.

. . . .

Luke

 

[Luke76]

EDIT: OK, ok, I am an idiot... I need to quit staring at this thing. The 2V adapter is NOT attached to the head incorrectly - it is facing the right direction. The confusing bit was the PCV spacer which just arrived today, each of these things (adapter, spacer, carb) has a slightly different outline on the outside edge, and it makes it easy (for me) to confuse which thing fits which way.

But the 2V adapter is on right... so thank heavens for that. I about gave myself a heart attack. Bad comments to PER retracted... (Well, at least the ones in this post).

What is clear is that my nifty PCV spacer is not going to work - it would still have the PCV nipple exit through the valve cover. I guess because it was designed for a V8, the setup is just different.

I guess I will just have the vacuum for PCV come from the intake manifold, and use the Classic Inlines spacer instead...

Ok, I'm taking a car break for the rest of the day.

Luke

 

[bubba22349]

What is clear is that my nifty PCV spacer is not going to work - it would still have the PCV nipple exit through the valve cover. I guess because it was designed for a V8, the setup is just different.

I guess I will just have the vacuum for PCV come from the intake manifold, and use the Classic Inlines spacer instead...

Yes it's the joys and heartache of backyard engineering. You are doing the best thing if it’s not going right take a break and do something else for a while than come back it will go better.

You can also plug the PVC nipple to still use it as your spacer since you have it. Cut it off if you need the clearance for valve cover than weld, epoxy the hole shut or use a pipe plug. Than depending which type spacer plate you have some of them are all open (bottom side) these can be moded so PVC hookup point would be on opposite side of it.

 

[Luke76]

Thanks for the encouragement Bubba. You're absolutely right about the spacer - it would be easy enough to chop off the nipple, plug the hole, and then stick a nipple on the other side. Actually looking at it, putting the nipple at the long end, either facing the firewall or the radiator, depending on which hole in the valve cover I put my PCV valve, might be even more convenient.

However, now I examine more closely the design of the underside of the spacer, it looks like it was intended to evenly split whatever crankcase gases were coming in, equally between both "intake holes." So maybe it would be best to just put the nipple on the opposite side, as you say, rather than on the long end, otherwise the gases would only be going to half the cylinders of the engine. Some grinding will need to be done to create new air channels, but that's ok, grinding I can do. Installing a new fitting I'm not so sure about, but maybe I can do that too. If I can find the right threaded nipple I guess it shouldn't be too hard to drill a hole, tap it, and thread the fool thing in.

Here are some pictures. Also, I'm going to start using smaller pictures which can be clicked on to see the full size.


Luke



Here is how the air would come in stock.



If I did some grinding I could put the nipple on the opposite side.



This would be most convenient from the standpoint of running the PCV hose, but maybe not the best in terms of operation...