Cam Degreeing 101

[Mr Comet]

Here's my dilemma:

My Jegs 555-81621 Degree Wheel Kit instructions me to install the timing set before degreeing the cam.

http://classicinlines.com/proddetail.as ... D200%2DDRC

The above link leads to the timing chain I purchased from classicinlines. The instructions for this kit tells me to degree the cam before installing the sprokets and chain.

Kinda hard to follow both instructions. Any suggestions? I have cam installed and there is nothing at this time on the crank snout.

 

[bubba22349]

Yes you will need to install the timing chain set to degree the cam, if it needs to be adjusted you will need too then remove crank and cam gear to adjust the advance or retard of cam timing with the crank gear. good luck

 

[80broncoman]

You are gonna have to install the timing set to see where you are to start with. THEN you will know what you need to do to put the cam in time to your liking.
Keep in mine the degrees are in cranks degrees. Even the degrees on the cam cards.
And this will also explain why a 4 degree offset crank key looks VERY different than a 4 degree cam key.

 

[Mr Comet]

Hey 80Broncoman O.H.

When I first put the timing sprokets and chain on does the crank sprocket go on the 0 keyway or the 4 degree adv keyway? I have the clay smith 264 264 110 cam.

 

[rbohm]

Hey 80Broncoman O.H.

When I first put the timing sprokets and chain on does the crank sprocket go on the 0 keyway or the 4 degree adv keyway? I have the clay smith 264 264 110 cam.

always start with the sprocket on the 0 degree keyway, that way you can determine if the cam is ground correctly and if any adjustment is needed or not. once the cam is checked, and you determine that what is on the timing card is what is in the cam, then you can decide if you want to advance the cam or not.

 

[Mr Comet]

I don't fully understand the "why" of what I am doing right now but I'll do it and hopefully the light will go on. Thanks

 

[kenny170]

I don't fully understand the "why" of what I am doing right now but I'll do it and hopefully the light will go on. Thanks

That's the way I do most everything, don't always understand why but I know it'll be a good thing. So I just plowing ahead with it and sometimes light bulb actually comes on

Kenny.

 

[rbohm]

I don't fully understand the "why" of what I am doing right now but I'll do it and hopefully the light will go on. Thanks

essentially when degreeing a cam, what you are going is making sure that the valve events on the cam card are the same as what the cam itelf is. in other words you are checking that the valves open and close at the right time, and the valve lift is as specified.

 

[JackFish]

I don't fully understand the "why" of what I am doing right now but I'll do it and hopefully the light will go on. Thanks

essentially when degreeing a cam, what you are going is making sure that the valve events on the cam card are the same as what the cam itelf is. in other words you are checking that the valves open and close at the right time, and the valve lift is as specified.

And you'll discover that each cam manufacturer seems to have a different opinion and way of expressing exactly when those events begin.

 

[rbohm]

I don't fully understand the "why" of what I am doing right now but I'll do it and hopefully the light will go on. Thanks

essentially when degreeing a cam, what you are going is making sure that the valve events on the cam card are the same as what the cam itelf is. in other words you are checking that the valves open and close at the right time, and the valve lift is as specified.

And you'll discover that each cam manufacturer seems to have a different opinion and way of expressing exactly when those events begin.

yep, some are seat to seat, some are the valve open and close at .006" and some open and close at .050", so be sure which you cam grinder says on the cam card. these days most use the .050" standard for easy comparison to other cams.

 

[Mr Comet]

No such "cam card" came with my cam from CI. Should I have got one?

 

[65-coupe]

No such "cam card" came with my cam from CI. Should I have got one?

I did not get one either but they are on the web site.

Brian

 

[WerbyFord]

No such "cam card" came with my cam from CI. Should I have got one?

Mr Comet,
I think a cam card should come with every new cam, hope CI is reading this it would ease confusion.
If you have the CI 264-264-110 cam though here is what the cam card WOULD say according to their site (not all the info is on the website either at least I cant find it!)

Duration advertised 264-264 (I never pay much attention to this, too tricky to measure and too little meaning)

Duration at .050" lobe 214-214 (this is the key measurement, when the dial indicator is .050" off the base circle)
Lobe separation 110 ICL=Intake CenterLine=110 ECL=ExhaustCenterLine=110 so Advance=0
(The CI site says their cams are straight up, ie 0 advance, but they recommend installing them at 4 advance)
http://www.classicinlines.com/CamCompare.asp

With the dial indicator you should measure, at .050" lobe lift

IO -3 (3 AFTER top center)
Max intake lift (imprecise but a good sanity check) at 110 ATC, same as 70 BBC
IC 37 (37 after bottom center)
(Duration = 180 -3 +37 = 214)
EO 37 (37 before bottom center)
Max exhaust lift (imprecise but a good sanity check) at 110 BTC, same as 70 ABC
EC -3 (3 BEFORE top center)
(Duration = 180 +37 -3 = 214)
Well thas what your cam card should have said, hope this helps. :mrgreen:

If you then install it with 4 degrees crank advance (sometimes a good idea, depends on the rest of the engine and car though)
Then re-check it and you should get

IO +1 (1 BEFORE top center)
Max intake lift (imprecise but a good sanity check) at 106 ATC, same as 74 BBC
IC 33 (33 after bottom center)
(Duration = 180 +1 +33 = 214)
EO 41 (41 before bottom center)
Max exhaust lift (imprecise but a good sanity check) at 114 BTC, same as 66 ABC
EC -7 (7 BEFORE top center)
(Duration = 180 +41 -7 = 214)

EDIT - I changed the EC lines from bottom to top so they read ok now. Duh. :duh:

 

[rbohm]

No such "cam card" came with my cam from CI. Should I have got one?

Mr Comet,
I think a cam card should come with every new cam, hope CI is reading this it would ease confusion.
If you have the CI 264-264-110 cam though here is what the cam card WOULD say according to their site (not all the info is on the website either at least I cant find it!)

Duration advertised 264-264 (I never pay much attention to this, too tricky to measure and too little meaning)

Duration at .050" lobe 214-214 (this is the key measurement, when the dial indicator is .050" off the base circle)
Lobe separation 110 ICL=Intake CenterLine=110 ECL=ExhaustCenterLine=110 so Advance=0
(The CI site says their cams are straight up, ie 0 advance, but they recommend installing them at 4 advance)
http://www.classicinlines.com/CamCompare.asp

With the dial indicator you should measure, at .050" lobe lift

IO -3 (3 AFTER top center)
Max intake lift (imprecise but a good sanity check) at 110 ATC, same as 70 BBC
IC 37 (37 after bottom center)
(Duration = 180 -3 +37 = 214)
EO 37 (37 before bottom center)
Max exhaust lift (imprecise but a good sanity check) at 110 BTC, same as 70 ABC
EC -3 (3 BEFORE bottom center)
(Duration = 180 +37 -3 = 214)
Well thas what your cam card should have said, hope this helps. :mrgreen:

If you then install it with 4 degrees crank advance (sometimes a good idea, depends on the rest of the engine and car though)
Then re-check it and you should get

IO +1 (1 BEFORE top center)
Max intake lift (imprecise but a good sanity check) at 106 ATC, same as 74 BBC
IC 33 (33 after bottom center)
(Duration = 180 +1 +33 = 214)
EO 41 (41 before bottom center)
Max exhaust lift (imprecise but a good sanity check) at 114 BTC, same as 66 ABC
EC -7 (7 BEFORE bottom center)
(Duration = 180 +41 -7 = 214)

good info.

 

[Mr Comet]

I am still working on getting the degree wheel set on TDC. The crankshaft bolt loosens when I turn it counterclockwise. Going to try a nut and lock washer to hold it in place tomorrow. I'll be back when I get to the dial indicator. Thanks

 

[bubba22349]

For true degree readings you should only turn the engine in one direction, the same as if it was running!

 

[Mr Comet]

I'll keep that in mind but I am still on the degreeing wheel being set on TDC.

 

[80broncoman]

For true degree readings you should only turn the engine in one direction, the same as if it was running!

And you should NOT be using the crank bolt to turn it if it is what the degree wheel is bolted on with.

 

[rbohm]

in fact there is a specific tool that lets you turn the crank with a degree wheel installed. it looks like a big nut that slides on the end of the crank, before you put the degree wheel on, and uses the woodruff key and a big open end wrench to turn the crank. it looks like this;

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-6 ... /make/ford

i dont know if anyone makes one for the inline six, or if the small block ford one will fit the six, but you get the idea.

 

[Mr Comet]

I am asking Jegs if there's will work on my 200. Does the small V8s harmonic balancer fit on the six crankshaft?