Car jumped timing again...Bad distributor?

[Anonymous]

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ch&start=0

See the link above for my previous thread on this. I thought I had the car fixed! I had it running very good. Scary good...new car good! Then out for a cruz today.... and the timing moved again. The distributor is tightened down good so it is something internal moving ...crap! Barely made it home.

The other day I got it to run really well using the vacuum gauge. When I checked with a timing light it wasn't even on the scale. It was about 1 inch off and below the scale. I new something had moved...

Today the timing advanced itself and the vacuum gauge says it's all screwed up again.

I guess my next step is pull the distributor and inspect and maybe get a new one. Anybody have any other ideas? The car hobby is less than fun at the moment!

 

[Mercury Mike]

Did you check to see if your harmonic balancer has slipped? If it has, it can continue slipping. Look at that first!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply.

Would the balancer slipping make the car run like crap? I don't think so? It would just make the timing mark wrong... right?

The car went from running soooo good...to dead on road, barley making it home.

I did look at the balancer and did not see any obvious problems. There was some old rubber chunks sitting there though. I don't know if that is normal. Some very small little chunks of rubber stuck to some metal....

 

[addo]

Could your points have closed up? It used to be common enough. Setting them with a dwell meter is the only "correct" way. People talk about gapping them but this is ill-advised unless you understand what to look for initially.

Once dwell is correct, you can mess about with timing (it won't change the gapping). Even something so simple as a pencil poked into #1 cylinder spark plug hole as you turn the motor by hand, will help find TDC. for safety's sake disconnect the battery positive when grasping the motor pulleys like this!

Is the motor a seven or four main bearing one? If a seven, why not upgrade to a Duraspark? Buy a chain store rebuilt, get the Mr Gasket recurve kit and set it up to fairly stock specs with the new springs. Don't trust it to be right even though it's "rebuilt". What you are mostly paying for here, is new bushings and a good electronic setup.

 

[Harte3]

Gear drive or chain drive on the crank/cam? FWIW 289 timing chains would jump with accumulated wear/slack...common problem.

 

[page62]

Make sure the drift pin in the distributor gear is still intact. It's a long shot, but the dizzy gear could be slipping on the shaft if the pin is broken...

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks but....I don't think it has anything to do with the points. I have spent a TON of time going through the car. I have checked the point gap many times while I was trying to troubleshoot the problem.

Finally, got it to run great by timing with vacuum gauge because timing it with a light did not work because something in there moved. It is a case of moving timing...

I just need to figure out what is bad.

It has a stock set-up (gear) whatever that is. I had the motor rebuilt about 10,000 miles ago by a local speed shop. They are now out of business. I found my paperwork from the rebuild and it is not very detailed. More or less it says, "Rebuild motor... $1,350"

I told them to do a full rebuild and I wasn't asking them to cut corners so I could save money.

Is there any chance they would use an old timing chain? Wouldn't any rebuild include a new chain?

 

[JackFish]

Your receipt should specify a new timing chain if installed.
Perhaps it was OK, then it took a beating after you got it back...
What is a "full" rebuild? :|

 

[Anonymous]

I found another receipt. Maybe you can help me decipher it?

Date of rebuild = 03/16/01

Car is weekend driver with maybe 10,000 miles at the most since rebuild

1 anj hix $350 - I have no idea what this is?
6 valves $30
6 valve seats $20

bore block
recond Rod
R+R piston
Valve Job
Surface head
Install Valve Seats
Ass Long Block
Install Heilcoil
$950

Total Cost $1,350.

Here is what the "said" they did.

Rebuild motor, port + polish, install RV cam

Sounds like maybe they re-used old timing chain? If so, man I sure would have asked them not to had I had a choice...

Any guess at what the first one is

(1 anj hix $350, might be, 1 ang hix $350)

Could that be the RV cam? I guess I know what the others are...

Thanks!!

 

[fordconvert]

I would want to check the points with a dwell meter. Gap only gets you close on new points. The cam (in the dizzy) could be worn giving you a bad gap setting. The mechanics of the advance system could also be causing the dwell to drift as can worn bushings or shaft.

 

[addo]

I'm yet to see a Ford six that has actually "jumped a tooth" on the timing set. For that matter, my knowledge of incidents where the harmonic balancer was proven bad, are very few.

To contrast, I have seen and fixed a decent number of "sticky" distributors, mostly cursed by dried-up grease. I've also seen several incidences of new cams being poorly aligned with factory degreeing specifications.

 

[Bort62]

I'm yet to see a Ford six that has actually "jumped a tooth" on the timing set. For that matter, my knowledge of incidents where the harmonic balancer was proven bad, are very few.

To contrast, I have seen and fixed a decent number of "sticky" distributors, mostly cursed by dried-up grease. I've also seen several incidences of new cams being poorly aligned with factory degreeing specifications.

I am going to vote for a sticking vac or mech advance in the dist. That is really the only thing that can cause the timing to change.

If the timing chain were slipping, the timing AND the valve timing would change dramatically, and you would have BIG problems.

 

[Anonymous]

those days you expected a timing chain to jump.
My 72 ford 302 jumped 2 teeth when I didn't hit the clutch right.
SOB was suckin' instead of blowing.
Every time i popped the clutch on that 14 mi downhill freewheeling run,the flames would shoot out of the carburator and the guy I had riding with me would freak out!
40 to 60 mph in Mexican Overdrive to make sure I got thru the mud.
One Hell of a ride Jack
You can tell by your distributor if you have a slack or screwed up timing chane.

 

[grocery getter]

did you run a constant 12 volts to the coil? if it's a stock coil ,you'll cook it and probably the points as well.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm yet to see a Ford six that has actually "jumped a tooth" on the timing set. For that matter, my knowledge of incidents where the harmonic balancer was proven bad, are very few.

To contrast, I have seen and fixed a decent number of "sticky" distributors, mostly cursed by dried-up grease. I've also seen several incidences of new cams being poorly aligned with factory degreeing specifications.

I am going to vote for a sticking vac or mech advance in the dist. That is really the only thing that can cause the timing to change.

If the timing chain were slipping, the timing AND the valve timing would change dramatically, and you would have BIG problems.

"I am going to vote for a sticking vac or mech advance in the dist."

The advance is working when I have a timing light on it and rev the motor but this makes sense. The vacuum advance gets stuck. Not returning all the way. I time it with a vacuum gauge, then the advance sticks in a different spot and I'm screwed again!

I suppose it can only be a bad distributor or timing chain at this point. I'm going to pull the distributor tomorrow and check it out. I will let you guys know what it looks like. I have never greased it. Am I supposed to?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you run a constant 12 volts to the coil? I am using the resistor wire.
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Anybody have a guess at what this means? From my rebuild receipt:

1 anj hix = $350

 

[Bort62]

Here's the thing dude. If the timing chain were to jump a tooth, while that does change ignition timing - what it really does is change valve timing.

If your valve timing were to change, you are NOT going to be able to get it running well by adjusting the ignition timing. It will run like complete crap, if at all, until you go in and fix the valve timing.

So the fact that you have had it running okay really suggests that is not the problem.

In addition to addo's statement. A timing chain jumping a tooth is a pretty horrendous event. It's not something that just happens and mildy effects the drivability of your car.

 

[grocery getter]

it might be time to upgrade to a DS2 ...

 

[falcon60]

"Anybody have a guess at what this means? From my rebuild receipt:

1 anj hix = $350"

Well,if you write "eng kit" really sloppy it might look that way. That would make sense because the pistons,rings,bearings and gaskets aren't listed anywhere on the bill.They would all be part of that kit. :
The running problem is 99.9% likely to be in the distributor.......

Terry

 

[addo]

I think we have a winner in the "FordSix Codebreakers Competition"! arty:

It's like the woodyards who can easily read my handwriting!

 

[jamyers]

I'd pull the dizzy, and make sure the points base-plate is moving cleanly, and not "tilting" as the vac advance moves it back and forth.

With the vac advance not being consistent, your timing could easily settle anywhere in maybe a 20-degree range, which would cause you no end of grief.