Confused about cams

[fordconvert]

I read a bunch of posts about cams and the tech article on the classic inlines page and still dont know what cam I should buy. Is there a list somwhere that has a simple description of the type of performance to expect from the various cams. Other engines I have bought cams for had a easy to understand list. I have started to grasp what the cam numbers mean on a 500" V8 but I assume the 200" 6 is a whole differnt animal. I usually buy what most people call 'update' cams which are just a non emissions slightly better version of the stock cams. This is for a stock daily driver in a 66 C4 mustang with the orignal log head. Only big plans I have for it is a TBI EFI. Overall drivability is the goal.

Also what are the choices for a timing set with multi keyways? All I can find so far is $30 stock (no key options) or the expensive double roller from CI which is a bit overkill for a stock motor but after finding the last combo I put together with supposedly high end parts 8* off I want the option to easily degree it in if I need to.

 

[JackFish]

My motor is stock, with the exception of the double roller chain, (and emissions stuff gone.)
Having the option of degreeing it is worth the investment, IMHO, as well as the added confidence in it's construction.
And you can make up for the retard that's built into the stock cam.
Haven't installed it yet but the 264/274 cam with 12° LC was recommended to me by Mike, as it supposedly provides better vacuum for the C4.

 

[rbohm]

8) the first thing you must do is decide what rpm range you are going to run this engine about 80% of the time. most of the cams designed for out little sixes generally work in the 1000-4500 or 5000 rpm range. thus if you are building a street engine, cam selection becomes fairly easy.

for our engines, lift and duration number are somewhat similar, so you need to look at the lobe center angle for how the cam will operate in your engine. the wider the angle the lower the peak torque rpm is. also the less overlap, and the smoother the idle, as well as better drivability. the cams that mike offers are excellent choices(wise move selecting clay smith to grind cams for our engines 8) 8) ).

 

[fordconvert]

I still need to pick a cam. Car is a 66 stang.
It will be the wifes somewhat of a daily driver mostly around the big city.

Stock I6 single exhaust.
Stock rebuild on the C4.
195 75 14 Tires.
3.00 8" rear.
I got a late 60's head that Im having rebuilt.
I dont have emissions testing.
Has DS/hei
Starting out with stock 1100 but working on Megasquirt/Tempo EFI

Which cam? I also need the lifters and chain. Budget is totally shot becaue I was not planning on a 1/2 rebuild on the motor this soon.

 

[rbohm]

8) here is the cam i recommend to you then

Product ID: CSC-264-HDP-12
CSC-264/274 (112*) Hydraulic Dual Pattern Camshaft


Details

Adv Dur 264/274


@.050 214/224


Valve Lift .450/.450


L/C 112*


Range 1400-5200




you can find this cam at www.classicinlines.com it will work well in your application.

 

[Bort62]

'tis better to undercam than over cam, and I think the suggestion is a good one.

214/224 is fairly mild o a 112* LSA. Should idle well and provide decent power through a useable rpm range.

stock or stock like cams suck.

 

[fordconvert]

The shop I took my head(s) to said they will throw which ever one I decide to use on the flow bench and pick a cam based on that. As long as I buy the stuff from them they said there is no extra charge unless some porting is needed.

Does that sound like a good way to do it?

 

[rommaster2]

I'm no expert but as long as they do what they are saying i don't see why that would be bad.

 

[fordconvert]

I asked the cam question before I got the new head to the shop. This is the first time I have used this shop. I thought flow testing cost millions of dollars. I will know more when I call them tomorrow with the measuements from the block.

 

[Bort62]

That is absolutely the best way to do it. I would also like to know what the flow #'s were.

 

[cfmustang]

Take it from someone who over-cammed... The lope-lope-lope may make you smile, but the tuning problems, stalling and lack of power off the line will drive you nuts.

I have a 264* sitting in the garage waiting to replace the 272*.

 

[Gene Fiore]

Take it from someone who over-cammed... The lope-lope-lope may make you smile, but the tuning problems, stalling and lack of power off the line will drive you nuts.

I have a 264* sitting in the garage waiting to replace the 272*.

That sounds like a pretty good combination to me. I'm curious on a few things so I don't make the same mistake. Did you degree the cam? What rear end gears are you running and do you have a higher stall converter?

 

[Alvor315]

I'm not sure of what cfmustang has got going on, but my daily driver is running a 280* cam with 108* lobe centers and rhoads lifters so I think it comes out to 274* with 110* lobe centers at idle. I'm running a C4 and it gets good pickup and is a wonderfull highway driver.

 

[cfmustang]

I am running the stock 2.73 gears, stock torque converter and a C4. I don't know if the cam was degreed or not since a garage rebuilt the engine, but judging the quality of the rest of their work... I would bet they didn't.

It may very well be that the cam timing is retarded. They bought and replaced the timing chain and gears from who knows where and also replaced my Rhodes lifters with stock lifters. I can say that years before the rebuild when the car was running I did not have the tuning issues, but there was never any power off the line. Once the car got up to around 2500/3000 it took off but I have always been looking for more power at the stop light.

I decided if I am going to tear the engine apart...again...I want it to be the last time so I am just replacing the cam with the one everyone else has been having so much luck with.

 

[rbohm]

I'm not sure of what cfmustang has got going on, but my daily driver is running a 280* cam with 108* lobe centers and rhoads lifters so I think it comes out to 274* with 110* lobe centers at idle. I'm running a C4 and it gets good pickup and is a wonderfull highway driver.

8) what engine and gears are you running? stiffer rear gears, and/or a larger displacement engine means you can run a larger cam without a loss of drivability. also you are using the rhodes lifters which helps out quite a bit in gaining low end torque.

 

[fordconvert]

I decided to go with the cheap comp kit. Their 252 looks to be a safe one and shouldnt be any worse than the stock one. I plan to put things back together to get it running for now and keep an eye out for a good motor to do a nice build up on. I did find an Isky kit that looked nice but cost a bunch more and would take a lot more setup work which I dont want to sink into this block or head.

 

[addo]

Unless you've committed, look at a regrind. I no longer trust the distributor drive helix on new cams, without a hardened distributor gear.

A regrind by someone like Reed Cams will be cheaper than a new camshaft and 100% of the cost stays in your country. No imported billets...

 

[fordconvert]

I thought that Cadillacs were hard and expensive to get parts for, I would rather do another cad than this 6 project I am working on. I have discoverd that with the ford 6's that MANY people have parts on their sites and catalogs but when you actually want one you hear all sorts of things. I was going to go with a cheap complete kit from comp to get my motor patched up and back on the road. I now find out everyone that sells that kit (including some ebay type folks) orders it from comp which does not stock that one. 7-10 days for them to make one IF they even have the core in stock. I guess at the moment they dont know when they are going to get the valve locks instock so it could be longer. I would go with a 'better' cam except they all look like they could or would require a very carefull setup and may need more work to the heads and such which I dont want to spend on the head and block I have now.

Looks like I am going to go with minimum head work, new lifters (since my old ones are all over the floor), new gasket kit and see if I can squeeze a few thousand more miles out of this thing while I keep my eyes open for another motor to start a proper build up.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[addo]

Why not a reground cam?

 

[fordconvert]

$150-200 2 weeks + for a regrind is the best I could find around here and I didnt like any of the people I talked to.

I am really burnt out on this project right now, the motor was going to be one of the last things on the list for this car, suddenly it has taken 99% of my time and is tryin to take 150% of the budget.

Not that I have the money or a motor worthy of a new cam right now but...
Anyone buy anything from Isky recently? Or have they been sold out and are no longer what they used to be like the rest of them? They have a set that looks pretty good and everyone I have talked to said they were a good company but no one has bought from them recently.