cost for turbo xflow parts...

[XFlow_Fairlane]

I am really looking into building a xflow for my fiarlane and would like to go turbo in a couple years after I finish school. I was wondering how much doe s a new turbo header run? I would be doing my own intake plumbing and efi setup so I would only need a header for a t4 turbo and a external wastegate. the turbo and wastegate I would get stateside since the cost would be around the same prob. can you get forged pistons cheap down there?

nick

 

[addo]

MarkZE would be a good guy to comment on the turbo header bit.

Why reinvent the wheel? There are good factory EFI intakes available that will need only slight tweaking. One guy was making over 400 RWHP using essentially a standard EFI manifold with a turbo.

As for the forgies, no; we have ACL, pretty much the best major piston maker in the world. A set of their hypereutectics will survive most pro-street applications with less grief than forged slugs.

Have you checked out Performance Forums?

Cheers, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

It wont cost much if you do most of it yourself.

What do you need?

1 crossflow motor. (US$ ?)
1 set of ACL Duralite pistons. Unsure about dish CCs, might need to go custom size if you intend on using pump petrol. LPG likes turbos.
One turbo header. A good exhaust shop will consider making one for you.


Heres where you need to start some more planning. single turbo or twin turbo? EFI or carb? twin .45A/R T03s are sized well on a crossflow. A single large turbo will work well too. They can be harder to find though. I'd suggest looking for a reconditioned turbo off a Buick Grand National 3.8. 300ccs smaller than the 4.1 (I assume you're going for the 250 crossflow). Since we never got the 3.8 turbo over here, I dont know where it winds out. But I'd assume you'll get a good rev range out of it, with the typical crossflow torque band making for some good low rpms cruising.

Heres a thought, are you sure you want a crossflow? Why not locate an OHC instead? Better head design, 94 onwards have a 12 counterweight crank, etc..

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

well I would keep the stock efi intake but run a aftermarket ECU on it. I am not sure yet on a turbo but prob a big single thumper. the motor should have enough umph to get around off boost. I was goign to have a custom t4 built most likely instead of making a compromise. how much more $$ are we talking for a ohc vs a xflow in AUD?

I would rather have forged pistons since I am the kind of person that is going to go for big numbers (like 18 psi range).

as far as a header I would rather buy a tested and proven one then have one made. if I have to have one made I will just do it myself btu would rather just buy one if they are out there and not too $$$

nick

 

[addo]

There's a 3.9 OHC dumped across the road from me. My neighbour left it there, when he got sick of patching it up all the time.

But I believe you have a few clearance issues on the OHC sump, so the crossflow slots in more easily to start with.

For 18 pounds, yes forged might be a good idea. But that's too much boost for durability, IMO. You will be looking at your rods, then, too.

To build the whole thing up like you're talking, I could easily see you blowing (no pun intended) USD$4K+... Probably more like 5G's.

You will get 99% of the satisfaction and grunt out of a lesser boosted motor, plus cheaper build and longer life (of the motor, I hope!). While it is another world compared to the log 200, it's still a dinosaur compared to say a Tojo motor. If you want the kind of grunt a Jap engine pumps out, check out somewhere like CRS for a full conversion kit, buy a Japanese front cut and you're away.

Cheers, Adam.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

well I was planning on a simple rebuild and focusing ont eh xflow conversion to get by until I get out of school in 3 years then after I get out and buy a driver tear the fairlane down for major work. I could prob go with just a set of cast pistons to get the turbo motor up and running but know I will want more power.

thanks for the info so far

nick

 

[Anonymous]

Can't either of these engines, X-Flow or OHC take like 30 pounds if the engine is completely built? New crank, rods, pistons, head work, 8.5:1 compression, girdle, etc. :

If the engine is this built, what about 18 pounds daily?
There are places that sell 100 octane, not a lot but enough for a fun weekend car.

What about adding a boost controller to keep the car under control for street use?

It would be nice to have a fuel injected OHC with a crazy top end (6,500-7,000 RPM maybe?) big single turbo, maybe a small shot of juice to cut down on the lag.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, theres a guy on Fullboost.com.au whos XE Fairmont Ghia (250 xflow) is running 18lbs on stock internals. Check it out,
http://www.fullboost.com.au/cars/featurecars/2001/xe_jason/xe_jason_intro.html

His vehicle isnt running petrol anymore. Instead its running LPG, a far better fuel for boosted conditions IMO. One doesn't need to reduce the CR as much to accomodate the boost, its a cleaner fuel to use, it burns cooler. Its octane rating is up near 120 IIRC. power is nearly 475rwhp. If youve got broadband, I reccomend getting the video thats on the site, much fun

edit: since I last read the article, hes since upgraded the bottom end with forgies and better rods..

 

[Anonymous]

aussies check out the latest zoom mag.,.. theres a EA with a 3.9 in it, ACL pistons, stock everything else, running 31 psi making ~ 700fwhp on pump fuel... he claims its reliable.. a bigger cam and some work on the head would probably get a few more HP too... I think the turbo is a bit out of its effeciency range!

anyway... I was on here before the crash a few months ago as XDed... once I get off P's and get a falcon without rust in it, i will be making a turbo motor.. plan is roughly -
- get a engine rebuilt, standard specs aside from ACL 29cc dished pistons, and a slightly larger cam (higher lift), HD valve springs, get the block crack tested etc...
EFI head with larger valves, pressure/crack tested

~~$ 1500-1800
get a gas system from GRA or impco, turbo manifold and turbo by ???????? (someone hopefully)
~$1500

run around 12-15 PSI with a intercooler, make ~ 200-250 rwkw's. cruisin

 

[Anonymous]

The engine in the latest Zoom magazine does indeed make those numbers on stock internals and ACL pistons. Of course the engine is a well built and prepped engine and obviously has a limited life.

Kyle the owner of this car in Toowomba recently built a new turbo for my engine. We have been discussing the limits of these engine quite a bit and he is currently building a new engine with forged pistons and pauter rods. It is getting the biggest single ball bearing turbo Garrett make and a carefully crafted split pulse exhaust manifold. His figures on the engine analyser package suggest over 1000hp.

The falcon engines will take 30 psi of boost enven on ACl pistons and pump fuel. The secret is carful tuning. These angine will not break unless they are pinging or over revving. A lot of the rumours you hear about the falcon engines are from the days of carburettors and mechanical distributors.

If you are going to run LPG it is important to run an ignition computer to fully map the advance if you want the most out of it. My engine runs as much as 35° total when off boost to give good response. At maximum boost and rpm this is down as low as 15° total.

See the below links for a detailed discussion on many of these topics. The owner of the White EA flacon featured in Zoom is 6boost who is very much the ring leader of these discussions. You may have to sign up for performance forums.com to view these links



http://board.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=67129632&referrerid=5152


http://board.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=67138472&referrerid=5152

http://board.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10256&referrerid=5152

I could spend all day writing to explain every detail of the turbo falcon engine as I know it but it has all been discussed before.[/url]

 

[Anonymous]

I did some research on forged pistons a while ago and found that one of the buick engines had a piston with a bore very close to the 3.67 " required for the crossflow. It also had a similar pn height and was available in a blower style piston from TRW in the U.S.

From memory there was also a pinto piston which went close to fitting.

I remember both these options required a custom rod to work properly with deck heights etc but I figure if you going forgies you might as well go with good rods as well.

Large journal chev rods will fit. They have to be narrowed slightly as the big end and the pin need to be. The TRW has an online catelogue which shows a variety of pistons and sizes. Careful searching and you will find one to work. Blower pistons are the ones you will need though.

I have used the ACL 26.9cc dish to acheive the 7.8:1 compression IO am using

 

[xctasy]

A word of caution:The 92 to 95 mm (3.625 to 3.736 inch) zone is a nasty for special pistons.

1.If its a cammer (OHC 3.9/4.0) it should get an XR6 Falcon Turbo piston off the latest 4.0 DOHC and an oil cooling jet in the con-rod. The bores are 48 thou smaller than a stock 250. It's not under a lot of stress in a 320 horse Falcon six...there's only a piddly 6 pounds of boost acting on it!
2.Cast ACL's are cost effective.
3.Keith Black still do make two kinds.
4.Ross in the US make any thing you want, and Rover have 95 mm numbers which handle stroker cranks, but they are not shallow enough for Falcon sixes, and may not take the feet per second of a high winding long stroke I6.
5.TRW made 305Chevy V8/229 Chevy V6 ones till recently.
6. Sealed Power used to make forged 200/250 pistons which were just bomb proof. Bill Mann in Brisbane Australia made almost 60 stoker 235 Holden red engines with them.
7.Mahle make some good, high quality ones for people with more $$$ than cents.

I've milled the flat top 229 V6 TRW's to fit my 228 +56 thou 221 cranked hybrid. Took off 56 thou. That's about as much as my nerves could handle and yields a perfect "0" deck.