DSII driving me nuts

[mysavioreigns]

I am so sick of this stupid swap, I'm honestly contemplating just selling the dang car.

I've been working on this "easy" swap for almost a year (or more?) and it's just plain ridiculous. I got it working like 7 months ago, went to start it the next day, and it didn't start, for some crazy reason.

So after months of trying and giving up after frustration, I ripped all of the wires out of it, re-did every one of them, got it working, went back out the next day to start it and it wouldn't start -- again.

There has GOT to be something wrong, but I can't figure it out. I know the stuff works, because I've gotten spark out of it.

Just for reference's sake, I have W - orange wire, G - purple wire, C - negative coil, and B - positive coil. The 12V switched is working, and I've checked all grounds, and solidified them (2 grounds in some cases).

Please suggest any ideas you've got, and I'll give you an answer.

 

[Asa]

where did you get the GM module from?
those things do like to crap out on you sometimes

when you installed the module, you did install it with a heatsink, right?

 

[mysavioreigns]

Yes, I've got a big heatsink on it.

The GM module I got from O'Reilly. I suspected that originally, but since it worked just 24 hours ago, I don't know why it would suddenly stop working.

 

[mysavioreigns]

On a CJ website I saw, they said the W and G wires should be twisted together, like a twisted pair wire. It also says they should be kept away from "spark energy wires"

I'm assuming they mean spark plug wires. If they mean the B and C wires, then that might?? be a conflict.

 

[fordconvert]

Does your switched 12 go to the coil and then there is also a wire to the module? When it does not start do you go check for spark? When you do how are you checking? A tach or at least a test light will tell you if the module is working.

When I fist did mine it worked great the day I did it but would not start the next day. (That is after I got the orange and purple right, there is still bad diagrams out there, if they are wrong it still sparks just at the wrong times) What I discovered was my 12v source was not live during cranking. It worked the first day because I had the key on and was using a remote starter switch from under the hood. It took me most of a day to figure that one out.

As for twisting the wires, it wont hurt but the only place you want to stay away from is the coil itself and the plug wires.

 

[mysavioreigns]

What exactly do you mean your 12V was not live?

I have this:

Wire from bypassed "pink" resistor (from ignition switch) to + side of coil. This shows 12V switched with test light.

Wire from "B" on module to + side of coil.

Wire from "C" on module to - side of coil.

Wire from "W" on module to Orange wire on distributor

Wire from "G" on module to Purple wire on distributor

Wire from chassis to black wire on distributor

Wire from chassis to module (grounding)


To check, I am removing the coil-to-distributor spark plug wire, and checking for spark out of it. This will cut off anything before the distributor into the circuit.


HEY! Something just came to me! If I am doing that, then the purple and orange wires are not doing squat, thus I will get no spark at all...is this correct???

 

[mysavioreigns]

Well, I went and checked it with it fully connected - still no spark. Darn, I thought I was onto something there.

 

[mugsy]

Do one swap at a time, by this I mean to do the basic DS-II first. Ford dizzy, coil, and modulate. Get that running reliably and THEN swap in the GM Module.

 

[mysavioreigns]

Didn't really think of that - I don't even know how to do it without the GM module...

If I've got it all installed, what would be the way of un-installing it, properly, to test an "easier" circuit?

 

[fordconvert]

On mine my 12 volt switched wire goes dead when I turn the key to crank. Not sure if I have a bad switch or what but to get around it I just hooked up the old wire from the solenoid so it gets power while cranking also. I have been meaning to figure out if thats a problem but its been working for 2 years now so I just keep putting it off.

If you put a 12v test light or volt meter between the + and - of the coil or B & C on the module and crank the engine you should get steady flashes. Maybe try it on the module with the coil unhooked incase something is wrong with the coil. If you unhook the orange and purple from the module then connect them to an ohm meter and crank the engine you should also see steady pulses. If you have +12 to the coil and ground the - of the coil it begins to charge, when you release the ground you should get a spark. When electronics are involved it is always best to use a spark plug or one of those clip on fake spark plugs. If you are just holding the wire near a ground you are making the coil build up a much higher than normal spark that could go places it should not like the module or any other electronic device in the system.

The orange and purple wires are a very very low level signal so high voltage interference cold be a problem but most often it would be false triggers unless it kills the module which is unlikely unless you made a direct connection and then it would kill it for good. Modules are rarely intermittent. You have the orange and purple correct. G inside of the curve is purple. If you had the orange and purple swapped the module will fire when the little points on the pickup in the distributor are somewhere between the points on the shaft. When the polarity is correct they will fire when they perfectly align. If its wrong it will still spark and you can get the motor to run it just does not run well because the timing floats all over the place.

 

[mysavioreigns]

I'm not sure if I get your drift...

So to see if I'm getting 12V when on START (when it's on RUN I do get 12V), I should put the 12V tester on the C and the ground on B, while cranking?

 

[80broncoman]

one of the screws that holds the GM module to the heat sink must be grounded. It twould not hurt to ground the body of the Ford module.

 

[fordconvert]

I'm not sure if I get your drift...So to see if I'm getting 12V when on START (when it's on RUN I do get 12V), I should put the 12V tester on the C and the ground on B, while cranking?

Yes make sure you still have 12v at the coil and module during cranking as well as in run.

Yes if you connect a 12v test light between b and c you should see flashes as you crank the engine, with or without the coil connected ( if the +12v for the B comes from the coil you will obviously still need that connected to the module, unhooking the c wire to the coil should be enough to isolate the two incase of a coil problem unless the whole coil is shorted to ground)

 

[jahearne]

I am so sick of this stupid swap, I'm honestly contemplating just selling the dang car.

Don't sell !!!

Go back to points distributor for now and tackle this DSII problem at another date. Start fresh, new wires, new module, new mind set...

 

[Asa]

i'm not sure i agree with the comments calling the DSII module easier, you still have to run a couple wires, it's not just a hookup straight from the module to the distributor

 

[addo]

It's possible to have a damaged pickup inside the distributor, too. Check for continuity.

 

[mysavioreigns]

one of the screws that holds the GM module to the heat sink must be grounded. It twould not hurt to ground the body of the Ford module.

I have the GM module grounded to a grounding block, which is grounded to the chassis. The black wire from the distributor is also grounded here (extra protection)

Go back to points distributor for now and tackle this DSII problem at another date. Start fresh, new wires, new module, new mind set...

Too late for that...The points distributor is long gone (since I originally had the DSII running)

i'm not sure i agree with the comments calling the DSII module easier, you still have to run a couple wires, it's not just a hookup straight from the module to the distributor

Ha, well easier is a relative term. It shouldn't take a year to hook up 2 wires and put it on a heatsink.

It's possible to have a damaged pickup inside the distributor, too. Check for continuity.

How so? Would this still fire one day, and not fire the next?

 

[fordconvert]

The test light on B & C will tell you if the module and pickup is working at low speeds. At high speeds it will pretty much be on but at least you should be able to tell if it drops out. Higher speeds a tach will tell you more. If the light / tach is working the problem is further down the stream.

Im sure you will get it figured out. On one of my recent projects I had the dizzy apart so many times the last time (after I found the original problem) I left the rotor out. I burnt up a battery cable trying to start it and was really getting mad when I leaned over and knocked the rotor onto the ground. Looked at laying there and started thinking 'i did not have a spare rotor out here'......

Would it be easier for you to talk to someone on the phone? If so send me a PM and we will see if we can connect some time.

 

[mysavioreigns]

Yea, I've done that a few times, lol...

I'll give the trick you said a try tonight after work. I'm sending you a PM too...

 

[fordconvert]

At least you can still work outside. Up here you dont even want to go out at night, day is your only chance when it up in the 20's. Thats F for you C people that are thinking 20 is 'room temperature'.