Finally!!!

[cfmustang]

I just talked to the garage/machine shop that has been rebuilding my engine. After nearly 5 months, it is supposed to be ready to be picked up on Friday!

I have been letting the mechanic use it as a filler job to keep the cost down - besides, it is not like I'd be driving around northern Ohio the last few months.

This will be the first time I have driven the car in almost 10 years!

Now I won't be able to sleep the rest of the week.

 

[Anonymous]

congrats man..pictures!!!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Way to go, big dawg!

I convinced my wife that my Mustang project is for our grandson...who will be 16 years old, and ready for his first car, in just 8 more years!

I sure hope I get to drive it before then!

 

[mugsy]

Sounds like an awesome combonation; keep us informed on the progress. Also I would like to know how the 272 cam with the Rhodes lifters work out!! I might try the same later

Mugsy

 

[cfmustang]

I'm picking up some new rechargable batteries for the digital camera, so there will be pics. Just be warned, the body work is only 3/4 done and the engine compartment needs to be cleaned and painted.

As for the performance, I'll have to take it easy on her for a while, but I'll keep you posted. There is a dyno place not to far from where I work so hopefully I'll be able to get some numbers in April or May.

 

[cfmustang]

Just talked to the shop and it is running sweat. All they have left to do is a front end alignment (had the front end rebuilt while it was all apart) and I can pick it up this afternoon.

Pictures forthcomming this weekend.

 

[cfmustang]

Well, I just got faxed the bill for the rebuild and great googly-moogly.

How much did Clifford charge for the total custom engine?

Granted, this cost more because what started as a head rebuild turned into a front-end rebuild, had them re-enforce some rotted out sections of the frame where the lower control arms mount, and short block rebuld.

Total: $3891.70

Labor: $3044.45
* including $1673 by the machine shop that did the head work and the short block rebuild. This is where I was apparently hosed.

Parts: $579.73


Well, I think the answer is obvious but how badly was I bent over on this?

Granted, this was all custom work and I am not experienced enough to do the rebuild. That was proved when I helped my father rebuild this engine 10 years ago and didn't bore out the cylinders thus causes many of the problems I just had corrected.

At least the owner of the garage has me optimistic. He couldn't believe how the engine was running.

 

[Falcon62]

If it helps any, my regular mechanic quoted me $3k to replace the engine in my Taurus. I have the mechanical abilitiy, just no experience with EFI and computers, nor do I have the equipment to test and diagnose.

Throw in the frame repairs and it doesn't sound too out of line to me, even though it's still a junk o'cash.

 

[Anonymous]

whoh

 

[MustangSix]

Was that the bill for the engine alone? Or was that for pulling, rebbuilding, reinstalling? Labor is almost always the most expensive part of car repair.Just as a rule of thumb, most shops in this area get $55-65/hr as the standard rate. I could easily have 25-30 hours in the engine alone, depending on how detailed I blueprint.

So if I were the shop and you brought me a car with a cruddy engine that needed everything, I might end up having to charge you about that much to pull, disassemble, machine, new parts, reassemble, reinstall.

I usually disassemble/asemble everything myself, then take only the parts needed to my machinist. There are usually very few parts needed for machining, so it's almost all labor. But most reputatble machine shops have a set rate for a particular procedure. Unless you have an uncommon engine, the cost to bore an engine is usually the same per hole for a chevy V8 as a Ford 200, for example. Cleaning, block check, bore and hone, deck, install cam bearing, turn crank, balance the rotating assembly, and press pistons normally runs me about $600-800 depending .

A cylinder head rebuild varies greatly on the amount of work needed, but could be anywhere from $200-400 without any custom porting work.

In most inlines, I'll have as much as $1000 in machine work and maybe $500 in parts. I can usually assemble a pretty good complete engine for under $1500.

Now if I had to count my labor, it would easily add a big chunk of money.

 

[ludwig]

I had a rebuilt V8 put in my 1986 F150. It was about $3600+ with no body work or machining with custom specs. That's not too far out of line, although it's a big gulp. And don't add up your reciepts for the other work until you're done. Otherwise you won't want to go on.

 

[cfmustang]

I haven't got the breakdown from the machine shop yet. I'll get that when I pick the car up in a hour or so.

The $3891.70 is for the other work I mentioned plus pulling, rebuilding and reassembling the engine. Originally, the machine shop was just going to replace the valves, guides. springs. The garage was going to give it a ring job because the number 1 and 6 cylinders were losing compression. Once the head was pulled, you could se the 1 & 6 cylinders were ovaled slightly.

When my father and I rebuilt the engine when I was just a young punk, we replaced the cam, crank, pistons, lifters, pushrods and rocker assembly. Due to our lack of experience, we somehow missed the condition of the cylinders and immediately saw compression issues after a couple of hundred miles. The car then sat for 11 years while life prevented me from doing anything about it.

Because it wasn't going to be a simple ring job, the whole engine had to be pulled and sent to the machine shop. I don't know all the details, but I know they bored out the cylinders and replaced the pistons. If I had to guess, they stripped the engine down completly. I don't think that was necessary, but others would know better than I.

 

[ludwig]

Well, I bought a rebuilt engine with a core swap for my Stang. With hardened seats on a stock head I ended up paying about $1200 and they dropped it off at my house right next to my waiting engine bay. It was bone stock. My daughter was with me when I showed them the port diveder from Clifford. The shop foreman couldn't quite figure it out, even with instructions. Daughter says: "Dad, when the guy can't figure it out even with the picture, you better take it some where else." I ended up shopping the welding.
I had a couple days of build up to put the other stuff back on and then get it running. I was a first timer so maybe it took a little longer than a shop would.
If you had the block honed and bored, of course they are going to clean it up some. The collective wear on all surfaces is what caused the need to rebuild the first time. And don't be shy. Get a shop manual and read up on how to do it. You and dad just left out a couple of steps, like the part where you hone the cylinder walls to return them to round and level out the little step at the top of the stroke, where the rings stop scraping.
Where I got soaked was all the interior stuff: carpet, dash, seatbelts and headrest, quiet stuff. Next time, I'll buy a clean car and just tweak out the engine/drivetrain.

 

[addo]

Some engines are easier to deal with than the sixes, IMO. You tend to find machine shops having all those nice jigs for the common V8s and stuff. That price for what is basically a "turn-key" setup isn't too bad, providing the insides are spotless and well appointed.

Yes, you could have saved some by pulling it down, and running around yourself. But that takes time off work, so add the lost income to your outgoings... Horses for courses.

What matters here, is that it ought to now go well and reliably, and within expectation!

Adam.

 

[gtm1086]

$3900 for a complete rebuilt engine and front end rebuild parts and labor out the door. Doesn't sound to bad to me. Most shops are in the 50 to 70 dollar an hour range so it does add up. What matters is will the shop stand behind their work.

 

[mugsy]

I want to say I rebuilt my engine and the front suspension on my "other" project car back in '90 and it was about $2500 total back then. I basically put in a new short block with re-con heads, etc. That price, for what you are saying they did, it not out of line.

Just remember the auto restoration rule of thumb: Estimate the cost of everything you can that needs to be changed/swapped/machined/cleaned/painted/derusted and then double it for the true/real cost!!!!!

tanx,
Mugsy

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a fair price to me!!!!

Later,

Doug

 

[Anonymous]

I say you got hosed?

I have only done one rebuild, and it was on my 66 200. we had the machine shop do only bore and short block assembly, my check to them was for $300. and that included the piston heads,

the rest of the parts I bought myself and the total rebuild with pertronix, and dressed up engine was about $700.

you save big time doing all the installing your self. we pulled the engine and put it back in, also pulled the head and reinstalled it our selves.

it was better for us to do it so now we know alot more about the car and the engine.

mike

 

['61 Draggin Wagon]

I say the price charged sounds fair. After you figure in the time involved, Custom fabricating & welding patches in(time consuming), reinstallation, getting everything squared away,etc, sounds good.
FYI: To have an engine bored, *you* want the block to be bare, so the cuttings & other foriegn matter can be thoroughly washed out afterward.
Also, honing cylinders just breaks the glazed surface that the rings seal against, so the new rings can seat to the cylinder walls. Honing in no way, makes the cylinders round again. (as mentioned earlier)And there's a ridge reamer to remove the lip at the top of the cylinder. Yet another thing that a hone is not designed to do....
There are alot of incidental steps that you paid for, that won't be listed on your invoice.
BTW, I live just west of Toledo, Ohio.
ASA certified mechanic, 28 years experience.

 

[cfmustang]

When we rebuilt it the first time, we just honed the cylinders. We didn't have it bored out to true everything up.

Well, I've got to say that I am feeling a little better. Between what everyone on here is saying and a close look at the laundry list of what the machine shop did, it isn't as bad as I thought.

It still is a chunk of change and more than I was originally expecting though.

Now, as for how it is running...

I think the Weber needs a little fine tuning, but it is hard to tell because it looks like I left out another detail. With the 272 cam, 2 bbl Weber, larger valves and adjustable rockers, I think I may need a higher stall torque converter. This baby wants to run! When I have it in gear with the brake applied, it stalls in a matter of seconds. I had to put it in neutral at the stop lights on the way from the garage to storage. Does anyone else have a similar setup with the 272 cam and a automatic? Did you have to change the torque converter or is it just tuning?

B.T.W. I'll have a couple of pictures up tomorrow.