flooding problem

[hasa68mustang]

At least thats what Im guessing... the car seems to start ok and really fast but it runs for a bit and I put it in gear and go back 10 feet or so and it starts sputtering and stalls and it turns over until the battery goes dead (optima red top) so its a good amount of time, I noticed when it was running and was sputtering it had a good amount of black smoke coming out and I would give it gas and it wouldnt help. Im not sure if its something plug related or if its flooded. The pump helped a ton the filter is actually full which is a first, it used to only get maybe half on normal idling but if you got on it and held on it it woudl go closer to 3/4 full. I know the float is adjusted just about as high as it will go as it still hadnt been showing in the sight plug, but I havent checked it with the pump... I just pulled the key and gave up for the night I was SUPPOSED to get m tranny put in my 95 stang but my dad forgot he had things to do and I work all day tomorrow 10-7 which sucks but oh well. I was sooo excited to get it goin then the same problem as last time... any suggestions as to where I shoudl start my dad thought it my be too much pressure, but i dunno cause kirk isnt having problems. Thanks, Tommy

 

[Stubby]

Tommy, I don't know whether to be proud of you or choke you. Put a fuel pressure guage on it and eliminate the guess work. There are different neadle and seats that will give different results for a given pressure.

any suggestions as to where I shoudl start my dad thought it my be too much pressure, but i dunno cause kirk isnt having problems. Thanks, Tommy

You are putting a lot of trust in the guys who built the batch of springs that went in that pump.

You are putting a lot of trust in the guys who built the pump.

My advice to you? Check everything. Recheck everything. Periodicaly recheck everything.

You followed Linc's buildup. If you tried to duplicate his setup without the monitoring, checking and testing he did, it would probably have problems.

I spent years building race engines and the only "out of the box" parts I ever found were Carillo rods and Lunati Rods. Most parts need something done to them before they are ready to run. Rods will need the pins fitted. Cranks may need polishing. The assembled race heads from Brodix or Dart might need the seats touched up and the spring pressure set up properly before bolting them on. When I started building engines, I expected the race parts to be perfect. After awhile I started expecting them to need more work. Try to explane the pin fitting charge to a guy who just spent 1200.00 on a set of rods. :roll: I will never put a part in a motor without checking it out completely. Even on a new set of Carillo rods, I will take the bolts out, properly lube them, torque them down and check the big end bore. Then I will check the small end bore. Double check the balance and if they need work decide whether to send them back or finish them myself.

The point is this, the only guy you can trust to make it good enough for you, is you. You can only trust yourself, if you are thorough in your work.
You have already made some mistakes that could have cost you the whole car and possibly personal injury. Slow down and do a little research. Buy a good book on turbos and another on carbs. Enjoy the exploration of these books.

I envy you for building the turbo Mustang. You did something I have wanted to do for years. I have spent all of my time dreaming and learning. You jumped in with both feet and did it. 8) I commend you for this, but I would like to see you fine tune it and enjoy the satisfaction of mastering the combo.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

take off your bonnet and see if you are getting gas out the vents on the carb.does it idle ok? does it bog when you blip the throttle?

just tossing out questions to maybe narrow down where the problem is.

 

[hasa68mustang]

stubby and P-dawg for your replys. I agree I need a fuel pressure gauge. its just the money thats killing me right now. I found a tranny for my daily driver (the tranny in it slips) that was rebuilt for $150 in jacksonville (4 hour drive each way) and picked it up yesterday. and I have to pay my dad 150 for insurance combine that with the gas for the trip, and I have 17 dollars and 75 cents to my name . which also happens to be about how much it cost for gas until I get paid once again thursday.

I did decide that working at night with a 12volt light isnt THAT bad so I threw on the charger set the float down and it turned over twice and started. I put all the stuff away and hopped in. it still has a bog low end but once its gets past that look out. Tires arent going to last long and with the timing at 17 it pulls ALOT better top end with no pinging from what I could hear. I did a u-turn in a parkign lot got it straightened out and floored it from about 5 mph or so and it started to spin them boost sterted building and then it TOOK off... rpms went way up and in a split second it bounced off the limiter (all of 5,000 rpms)... which it never does because it didnt pull very vell top end wise. That got ALOT of frustration out and I parked it.

These past couple of weeks I have been working more and I am probably going to get some decent gauges. My boost gauge is there, I dont know how accurate it is and for the 20 or something dollars I paid for it Im gonna say not very. I am also wanting a wideband and of coarse the fuel pressure gauge. I have one that is simply used for checking pressue and I hooked it uo and saw it was makign about 10psi at idle and then unhooked it and figured it should be o.k.

Stubby thanks for the reply. It kind of seems personal in a way (for lack of better words), you definately seem to know me (I dont know if you would talk about choking somone and the whole my GREAT driving and all that with anyone else without worrying about them going off on you) and offer great advice. I concur about the slowing down, and also about the costing myself the car and injury... and death. There was a local streetracing accident that kinda got to me (caused by one of my best friends boyfriends heres a link to a video about it) where somone olost their life and I have been driving good other than tonight in the empty parking lot. As for literature I have both a turbo book and a holley carb bok. The carb book has one page or so about blow through modifications and Ive been through the rest of it once, the turbo book Ive lost track of how many times Ive read it. I have it with me at school and whenever I get a chance I'll pull it out

P-dawg it seems like it hesitates when you blip the throttle sometimes when idleing but once you do that once or twice it revs fine. Ill check out the vents sunday before I goto work (before noon) I think I am going to get it running good with this setup before going to a larger turbo. hmm bed time gotta get ready for my 10 hour day tomorrow

hey I think thats the first post that Ive divided it into paragraphs... WOOOOT!

 

[addo]

Yes, we're winning with the paragraphs.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

man I wish I had my car here so I could work on my fueling issues....or get teh EFI up and running. you can use a plain air pressure gauge for fuel (they are metal on the inside) and mount it on a length of high pressure EFI hose. I have done this befor eand routed it the back of the hood (was on a car without a flush cowl) and put it under a wiper so I coudl read it while driving (just for tuning)

 

[Stubby]

Tommy, I apologise if I offended you.

The slowing down I refered to was in your repairs. Your carb book says that 10 psi idling is OK? What does the fuel pressure do when you work the throttle (like when you back up or take off)? Is the power valve bad? If it is, and you replace it, will it be lean at max load or max boost? How much pressure can a plastic filter stand before it blows apart and starts a big fire? 10 psi plus 15 psi of boost (boost referenced pump) equals 25 psi fuel pressure. So his filter worked, will mine work at that pressure?
Maybe I should ditch the filter I can see thru and rely on my sight plug and pressure guage?

I am not trying to be critical. These are the questions that pop into my head. The more questions that pop into your head and the more you solve, the better prepared you will be.

I know the float is adjusted just about as high as it will go as it still hadnt been showing in the sight plug, but I havent checked it with the pump...

In my opinion, this is something you can't afford to not know. I just meant to check everything. You are a bright young man and you have the skill. If you checked everything possible and listed everything you had checked, with the results, you will get better answers. Often times, when you check everything, you will be posting about the problem you found and how you fixed it.

The comment about choking you. I was smiling when I typed it. I ment no harm or disrespect. It is something I would have said to my son. Now that I think about it, I guess you felt you were being disiplined in public. This was not my intention. I guess I am not as good a teacher as I once was.

When I disiplin you I will use this one.

As I see it, some people have more mechanical ability than others. I personaly think you have just as much ability as most on this board. The differences between you and me are age and experience. The way to get experience and the knowledge that it brings is to solve the puzzle. Look at everything and make observations. Work the puzzle and come up with your own answer then check your answer with others. In this day and age, the internet has helped and hurt us. It is real convenient to ask a question and not take the time to solve the puzzle. Only by solving the puzzle, will you gain the knowledge you seek. When you solve the puzzle you will also get the how and why that go with the answer. The how and why, are more important than the answer.

When I had more time and patience. While training a new hand in the shop, I would often answer a question with a question. I would make them think. I would ask them to come up with what they would do if I weren't there and then come to me with the plan. Then, if there was a better way, or if I had anything to add, I would help them. More than once, the teacher learned from the pupil. What I am trying to say here is, I feel you have alot to bring to the table, if you will slow down enough to solve the puzzle.

As for what you do with your tires. Ben there, done that. 8)

 

[hasa68mustang]

woah there stubby you took that the opposite of how I wanted you to... I completely understand what you meant, and couldnt agree more. I was simply stating that when telling someone like that and being kind of blunt people tend to get attitudes about it. I am not one to do that. thanks for the advice though

 

[Mustang Boy]

i think i found ur problem out i had the same problem when i had with my 1brl before i got rid of it and i think i kow y u havnt found the problem cause i think ur thinking too hard check ur accelerator pump when mine was out it would do the same thing when i tried to hit the gas p usually had to tap it quickly then i could depress it right after i did that and it would be ok until i had to hit the gas again

 

[Stubby]

I have one that is simply used for checking pressue and I hooked it uo and saw it was makign about 10psi at idle and then unhooked it and figured it should be o.k.

Your carb book says that 10 psi idling is OK?

This is too much pressure at idle. If you hook up a guage and work the throttle a little you will probably see more. When you boost reference the pump it should not affect pressure at idle.

This part of the combo is not right. Whether you think it is a problem or not, fix it and it will help.

 

[Anonymous]

The pump helped a ton the filter is actually full which is a first, it used to only get maybe half on normal idling but if you got on it and held on it it woudl go closer to 3/4 full.

GET RID OF THE SEE-THROUGH FILTER! They can't be trusted to handle a lot of pressure and it is a firebomb waiting to happen (under boost that is)

I didn't know you had one on there.....

I know the float is adjusted just about as high as it will go as it still hadnt been showing in the sight plug,

Get rid of that sight plug, too. It seems to be more trouble than it is worth. I wouldn't trust it under boost, either.

... on a length of high pressure EFI hose.

There's another EXCELLENT point.....I don't know if you noticed, but my fuel system in my turbo car is all EFI fuel hose. The non-EFI hose is total and complete garbage and I wouldn't trust it over 5 psi.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

on the fuel line topic....

if you want tommy I can shot you a -6 bowl fitting for nothin if you give me your addy to mail it to. while braided line is costly it pays for itself in the end. seems most rubber line will harden and will have to be replaced quite often. run -6 from your pump to the carb and pulling th eline will no longer be much if any chore.

 

[Anonymous]

a -6 bowl fitting.......run -6 from your pump to the carb and pulling the line will no longer be much if any chore.

No arguement there, if the fuel line comes off a lot that would be the way to go.

-06 will be good to 600 HP, too (hahaha)

 

[hasa68mustang]

-06 will be good to 600 HP, too (hahaha)

well then I better hold off and get some bigger cause im already at LEAST making 550RWHP and thats cutting it close.

I will definately ditch the clear filter I went to our garage tonight and felt it and its pretty soft you can dent it fairly easily. All of my hose is efi if I remember correctly I just got it off the 25 foot roll my dad had lying around and connected it to the hard line so I wouldnt have to rebend the hard line, and figered I would goto the "an" line when I got the money. Ill pm you in a sec p-dawg. and thanks again for the replys, Ill see if my dad has a metal filter I can have/borrow and see if I can solve my problem before work. Thanks, Tommy

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

btw I am running my filter on the inlet side of the pump (something about those filings I got in my new tank when I drilled the filler hole.

 

[hasa68mustang]

well guys I went over to our garage with the intentions of trying to fix the car and I created an ever bigger problem...

I decided I would try to mess with the timing some I checked it and it was showing 14 or so and I advanced it to 19 or so. and I am thinking a few of you know where Im going with this...

I took it for a spin, it seemed to be doing pretty good maneuvering out of our property and into the adjoining parking lot and out onto the street, I just started by easing onto it and it felt really good, I made it to a stop sign, made a left then an almost immediate right, and theres a good half a mile straightaway and Got on it a bit, no hesitation, only tire smoke. I also hooked up my dads Snap-on vacuum gauge before I left and saw it was reading 12 for vacuum at idle, an when boosting only showing 8 or 9 (my cheapo ebay gauge shows 8 vacuum at idle and 10-12 at full boost), I was too busy holding on to get a completely accurate reading with the snap-on gauge...

so then I try from a stop this is when the car sucks at doing what cars do best. I stomped on the gas pedal and it takes off a little slow (anythings gonna seem slow after the last little run I had done and its not really that fast untill the turbo spools) and it starts building boost and you get pushed into the seat and then the tire breaks loose and you dont really go all that fast. Yes, that is the problem I created. I cannot floor it from stops. The car is running soooo much better and it brake torques without its retarded hesitation bog deal.

I have not tried going through a gear fully to see about pinging. 1st gear goes to 50 when the limiter kicks in and this is all in residential streets so Im not going to try to go 50 and see how man kids I can take out with my drum brakes, and I dont have the car insured to take it out on a highway... I wish I lived somewhere north of here, I cant tell you where 1 country road is within 10 miles of here, its all city and all being built up.

It kind of seems like it bogs off the line but I am guessing its going to not take off very fast like my 95 gt does because most of the power being made is from the turbo. I suppose this is where having some kind of wideband a/f meter would come in handy to try to get it running best.

 

[Mustang Boy]

i suggest since u got that problem worked out u work on getting that 8in in ur car with a trac loc so it will hook up better

 

[hasa68mustang]

i suggest since u got that problem worked out u work on getting that 8in in ur car with a trac loc so it will hook up better

right after I turned the car off I got out an air dremel and a wire wheel brush attachmentand went to town, Ive got it all cleaned off and gonna shoot some paint on it and put it in sometime... thats another free thing that will help the car out some... and I have to put the tranny in my 95... I work monday after school but have 3 days off after school this week so hopefully Ill get some stuff done.

 

[kirkallen143]

Tommy, your bogging you are talking about, have you had time to check the accelerator pump shot? What size of squirter do you have on there now? You might want to try a 0.028", I had that same issue about the bog just off the throttle. With a smaller squirter the bog is almost non-existent, almost. On mine if you ease into the throttle there is no bog what so ever, but if you hit the throttle fast, just a little hesitation, but not much. All the adjustments are set right, accel. pump arm, fuel level, etc..., I might try an even smaller squirter to see if it gets any better. 0.025" or so. Keep us updated.

Kirk