Headers on a 200ci...how much difference?

[78_200_C4]

“...did not test.."
I read that as a 1st/early mod

“...installed an LOM spark valve carb..."
and onto 6 Keihins (motorcycle carbs)

The 67 Mustang California Emission 200 did not ever have a LOM distributor so that means AK did not test the power increase of a header installed on an LOM 200.
The California Emission 200 had centrifugal + vacuum advance starting in 1966.
The 66-67 California Emission 200 had an air pump as is shown in the photo and described in the article.
The California emission 200 ran great compared to the legendarily slow Load'O'Matic small sixes.
My wife drove a 66 Mustang California emission 200 for 14 years.

 

[chad]

yup, I C the ‘headers' in pic post 119

 

[Mustango]

Helps mine and sounds great. Yeah a hill will slow ya down but really smooth.

 

[jcom4179]

Soy for the delayed response . Sometimes life gets in the way.
I have upgraded the carb to the Webber 32/36 and did the DUI distributor. Helped drivability a lot. Also have upgraded front brakes to v8 size while doing a five lug conversion. I had to get a new drive shaft from Modern Driveline, the original did not hold the u-joint cups tight, I dimpled the inside with a punch, that helped some but didn’t want problems. The rest of the driveline is stock. I have a second engine that is in progress, it will have extensive upgrades.

Hey Don, I too am sorry for the late responses. So you've been busy. Have you driven it since the Weber and distributer upgrade? Just wanted to know if you noticed much of a difference in power / performance. What tyranny do you have? I took your advice and I'm just going to save up for a T5. I'd like to find a used or rebuilt one. I saw one on Facebook, but it was for a 4 cylinder, not sure if that would work. I just don't know enough about the T5 transmissions and which model to look for. I do know that they match up nice to the inline 6 cylinders. Any thoughts give me a shout.
Cheers Don and thanks for the updates on your project.
Jeff

 

[vssman]

Hey Don, I too am sorry for the late responses. So you've been busy. Have you driven it since the Weber and distributer upgrade? Just wanted to know if you noticed much of a difference in power / performance. What tyranny do you have? I took your advice and I'm just going to save up for a T5. I'd like to find a used or rebuilt one. I saw one on Facebook, but it was for a 4 cylinder, not sure if that would work. I just don't know enough about the T5 transmissions and which model to look for. I do know that they match up nice to the inline 6 cylinders. Any thoughts give me a shout.
Cheers Don and thanks for the updates on your project.
Jeff

A 4cyl T5 has a very low 1st gear. Some have used them but you’ll run out of gear quickly. I have an ‘88 V8 T5 out of a GT in my ‘63 Falcon. I had the tail shaft changed out to an S10 moving the shifter forward. It’s a pleasure to drive. I don’t know if I’d charge to a front shift again or not. The shifter had to be tilted back so that my knuckles wouldn’t hit the dash. Depending on the car, you might have to cut the cross brace to fit a standard T5 shift position in the car. Not a big deal if you have buckets.

 

[funkaholik]

Your "a real-world answer to how much difference adding just headers makes on a car with a stock autolite 1100, stock head, cam, etc" does not take into consideration which stock exhaust system is used or whether a Load'O'Matic carb distributor is used.
Early Falcons had a round muffler with a 1-1/2" tail pipe.
The Load'O'Matic had a major part in making the small Ford six legendary as the lowest performing OHV six ever made.

Obviously I won't be able to compare my results to every available stock exhaust system, only to the one on my '67 Mustang. Still, it will be interesting (to me, anyway) to see what adding only a header and free-flowing exhaust does to the power. Those who have a more or less restrictive stock exhaust than I do can add or subtract a few hp from my results.

As far as the distributor goes, the next sentence of my post after the one you quoted is, "The only mod I will have before the first dyno session is an Aussie Bosch electronic distributor." If I'm able to, I'll even try to get a baseline dyno before and after the distributor swap, because that should be interesting, too.

The reason for doing the dyno test after each individual mod is really for my own curiosity and education. I'll share the results here in case anyone else is interested.

 

[jcom4179]

Hope this T5 pdf opens for you and is useful if you decide to go that route. I collect info I find interesting. The 3.03 is sturdy but a 4sp or 5sp with od will greatly enhance drivability and your everyday overall experience as stated previously. In my opinion the T5 is a performance upgrade with a close ratio 4 speed to keep the six at good rpm range and the od gear to provide civilized freeway cruising at 70 mph while the 200 just loafs along at lower rpm. It will drive more like a modern sports car. The NV3550 5sp od really changed the driving experience in my Bronco.

Sorry for the late reply. I'm getting my house ready to put on the market. The attatchment opened right up. Awsome information. I did a lot of thinking about what you said about just going for the T5, and hey man, your right. Another member Don I chat with gave me the same advice. There's a huge difference between the 3 speed top loader and the T5. I've started looking for a used or rebuilt one from 83 to 93 models, no luck yet. If you happen to see one please give me a shout and again thank you for the information in the attatchment.

 

[jcom4179]

A 4cyl T5 has a very low 1st gear. Some have used them but you’ll run out of gear quickly. I have an ‘88 V8 T5 out of a GT in my ‘63 Falcon. I had the tail shaft changed out to an S10 moving the shifter forward. It’s a pleasure to drive. I don’t know if I’d charge to a front shift again or not. The shifter had to be tilted back so that my knuckles wouldn’t hit the dash. Depending on the car, you might have to cut the cross brace to fit a standard T5 shift position in the car. Not a big deal if you have buckets.

So definitely go with the 8 cylinder T5? What would you say would be a fair price for a used or rebuilt T5 from years 83 to 93. I'd love to find one in a junk yard off a donor car. I think the safest way to go would be a rebuilt T5. I'm pretty sure I will need to have it installed, as I've never attempted a tranny swap.
Thanks again for the help. I'd be screwed without the information you've given me.

 

[vssman]

Yes, world class V8 T5. I don’t know what the prices are these days but about 10 years ago I paid 1300 for a rebuilt unit with the S10 tail housing. A straight world class V8 was 800 rebuilt. I don’t know if the rebuilder is still in business. I got his contact from here. It’s Earl Johnson hjhnracing@msn.com

I think he was out of Texas.

 

[jcom4179]

Yes, world class V8 T5. I don’t know what the prices are these days but about 10 years ago I paid 1300 for a rebuilt unit with the S10 tail housing. A straight world class V8 was 800 rebuilt. I don’t know if the rebuilder is still in business. I got his contact from here. It’s Earl Johnson hjhnracing@msn.com

I think he was out of Texas.

Got it, I'll try emailing Earl, hopefully he's still in business. How big of a job is the swap? I'm sure you probably swapped your out yourself.
Thanks for the info

 

[funkaholik]

Perhaps we should start a new thread about T-5 swaps, or add to an existing one, since we are way off the title of this thread now.
But since we're here, if you're considering a used T-5, and don't have the skills to rebuild it yourself (I don't), I'd call some transmission shops in your area and find out what a ballpark price on a rebuild/reseal is. Obviously, it will vary wildly depending on what parts do/don't need replacing,, but they should be able to give you an idea of the cost if just the usual wear parts need replacing. Keep in mind that a new Ford Racing T-5Z with a warranty is $2000 from Jegs or Summit. After paying for a used one and having it inspected/resealed/maybe rebuilt, will you save enough off that $2K to make it worth it? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I'm not saying don't get a used one, but if you'll end up being $1800 all in for a rebuilt junkyard or Craigslist trans, personally I'd save up the extra $200 and get the new one.

If you talk to Modern Driveline or American Powertrain, they will want to sell you their special shifter, hydraulic clutch release, and even a new driveshaft. I sent both of them my car info and their quotes (including a new T-5) are both close to $5K. You can do it much more minimally, like with the CPC kit that includes just cross-member, bellhousing adapter, mount, and yoke. I'm not sure if you'll need a new clutch for the T-5's splines, but I'm sure there are those here who know.

 

[jcom4179]

Perhaps we should start a new thread about T-5 swaps, or add to an existing one, since we are way off the title of this thread now.
But since we're here, if you're considering a used T-5, and don't have the skills to rebuild it yourself (I don't), I'd call some transmission shops in your area and find out what a ballpark price on a rebuild/reseal is. Obviously, it will vary wildly depending on what parts do/don't need replacing,, but they should be able to give you an idea of the cost if just the usual wear parts need replacing. Keep in mind that a new Ford Racing T-5Z with a warranty is $2000 from Jegs or Summit. After paying for a used one and having it inspected/resealed/maybe rebuilt, will you save enough off that $2K to make it worth it? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I'm not saying don't get a used one, but if you'll end up being $1800 all in for a rebuilt junkyard or Craigslist trans, personally I'd save up the extra $200 and get the new one.

If you talk to Modern Driveline or American Powertrain, they will want to sell you their special shifter, hydraulic clutch release, and even a new driveshaft. I sent both of them my car info and their quotes (including a new T-5) are both close to $5K. You can do it much more minimally, like with the CPC kit that includes just cross-member, bellhousing adapter, mount, and yoke. I'm not sure if you'll need a new clutch for the T-5's splines, but I'm sure there are those here who know.

That actually makes alot of sense. Even at a $500 difference I think it would be worth the peace of mind knowing everything is new and warrenteed. I saw some rebuilt ones on ebay for between $1500 and $2000. I'm going from a C4 to a T5 so I would need the a new clutch and all those add ones you don't think about until you have to start buying them 1 or 2 pieces at a time. I wonder how many hours labor it would be to have a mechanic do the swap correctly. It's funny any project I've done to the car is always pretty much twice the amount that I think it's going to cost. It is what it is, do it once and do it correctly.
Thank you for the price information as I'm pretty sure I would end up spending close to $2000 for a rebuilt T5, and that just makes no sense considering a brand new one would end up around the same price. Now if I could start a new thread with the heading " Please Donate Hear to Help Fund my T5 Swap Project" LOL
Really though thank you for the pricing info. It's a no Brainer. Just go for the new warrenteed T5 tyranny.

 

[78_200_C4]

yup, I C the ‘headers' in pic post 119

Chad, If this this was Facebook I would block you for your dishonest BS.
Yea there is a header but it was not being tested with an LOM distributor which was my subject.
I have spent many hours searching Fordsix .com for certain user posts like "xctasy".
Never once did I ever consider doing a "Chad" search.

 

[78_200_C4]

Obviously I won't be able to compare my results to every available stock exhaust system, only to the one on my '67 Mustang. Still, it will be interesting (to me, anyway) to see what adding only a header and free-flowing exhaust does to the power. Those who have a more or less restrictive stock exhaust than I do can add or subtract a few hp from my results.

As far as the distributor goes, the next sentence of my post after the one you quoted is, "The only mod I will have before the first dyno session is an Aussie Bosch electronic distributor." If I'm able to, I'll even try to get a baseline dyno before and after the distributor swap, because that should be interesting, too.

The reason for doing the dyno test after each individual mod is really for my own curiosity and education. I'll share the results here in case anyone else is interested.

There are thousands of early Falcons-Comets with 1-1/2" tailpipes still on the road. A 2" turbo muffler adapted to the 1-3/4" exhaust pipe makes a great increase in power without the risk of buying the wrong eBay header that has a #6 tube that interferes with the starter. If a person only has a an Autolite 1100 carb the header may not increase the hp much. A header made a great hp gain on my 78 200 with a .060 milled head, quick advance curve, enlarged large log intake bore along with a large base Rochestor marine 2V carb.

 

[bmbm40]

Obviously I won't be able to compare my results to every available stock exhaust system, only to the one on my '67 Mustang. Still, it will be interesting (to me, anyway) to see what adding only a header and free-flowing exhaust does to the power. Those who have a more or less restrictive stock exhaust than I do can add or subtract a few hp from my results.

As far as the distributor goes, the next sentence of my post after the one you quoted is, "The only mod I will have before the first dyno session is an Aussie Bosch electronic distributor." If I'm able to, I'll even try to get a baseline dyno before and after the distributor swap, because that should be interesting, too.

The reason for doing the dyno test after each individual mod is really for my own curiosity and education. I'll share the results here in case anyone else is interested.

I don't know how much a dyno session is but the information would be very useful to you of course and many others that are starting out with stock engines. The results won't apply directly to each and every vehicle of course but I would consider the results to be valid guidelines. I am stating the obvious here obviously but look forward to hearing about your results.

 

[bmbm40]

T5 was available with various ratios and configurations as seen in this chart which I failed to send originally. It might be useful to determine your axle ratio and then go to one of the online calculators to enter your axle ratio, tire size (diameter) and the ratios of the various T5 offerings to add to the valuable input from forum members previously stated. If you buy a new T5 you might have more than one ratio set to choose from. Just FYI.

Ford T5 Identification Chart

www.therangerstation.com

 

[funkaholik]

I don't know how much a dyno session is but the information would be very useful to you of course and many others that are starting out with stock engines. The results won't apply directly to each and every vehicle of course but I would consider the results to be valid guidelines. I am stating the obvious here obviously but look forward to hearing about your results.

Thanks. I think more data is always a good thing. I have a friend with a dyno at his shop, so when he's not too busy, and in a good mood, I can dyno my cars cheaply there. It's an hour drive, and he's often busy, but it's worth it to me to find out real-world HP changes.

 

[funkaholik]

Chad, If this this was Facebook I would block you for your dishonest BS.
Yea there is a header but it was not being tested with an LOM distributor which was my subject.
I have spent many hours searching Fordsix .com for certain user posts like "xctasy".
Never once did I ever consider doing a "Chad" search.

Hopefully we can all remember why we're here - a shared affection for Ford sixes and the desire to learn & share information about them. Maybe we can even have misunderstandings or differences of opinion without getting too bent out of shape.

 

[chad]

’S ok, certainly not here for the ‘searches’.
Appoligies for my part in anything. My 1st
“attack” in decade’n 1/2. Thnx funk. Will
try’n add to the site instead~

 

[jcom4179]

T5 was available with various ratios and configurations as seen in this chart which I failed to send originally. It might be useful to determine your axle ratio and then go to one of the online calculators to enter your axle ratio, tire size (diameter) and the ratios of the various T5 offerings to add to the valuable input from forum members previously stated. If you buy a new T5 you might have more than one ratio set to choose from. Just FYI.

Ford T5 Identification Chart

www.therangerstation.com

That's information that I wasn't aware of. Thank you for the link, Also thank you for taking the time to share the link and information with me. You are a priceless asset to the forum
Jeff