Holley problems and timing issue

[2Blew2B]

Ok, my last posting didn't draw much interest but here is the deal. I know you inline expert will help me get this care on the road.

The car will not stay cranked (sort of) the car specs are listed below:
65 Mustang 200 block and head (new valve job on head)
Stock cam & pistons
Holley 2300 manual choke 2bb
Duraspark ignition with msd blaster II coil (stock module) .50 spark plug
Dual headers (STILL JUST HAVE HEADERS CAN I TIME WITH THAT???)
A/C (in Tucson a must)

With the choke set almost closed it crank and I can then open all the way.
It ideal at 2000 rpm according to tack (I THINK THAT IS TOO HIGH????)

This is what I have done so far: I closed both metering screws on the Holley and then turn those 2 full revolutions.

Then tried to reduce ideal but it starts to cut out on me.

My timing mark is about a inch away from the WHOLE Timing block on the timing chain cover (Toward the Passenger side) When I try to bring it back toward the block it shut the car off.

I NEED HELP getting this car back on the road.

 

[Anonymous]

I may not understand the problem fully you are describing, but may be this will help. The idle will be raised significantly if the choke plate is closed. I am not familiar with the Holley carb, but carbs typically have a stepped cam and a fast idle adjuster screw that bottoms out on the edge of the cam. When the choke plate closes the fast idle screw sets on a particular step on the fast idle cam, raising the idle speed. As the carb warms up the choke plate rotates and the fast idle cam rotates to a smaller step reducing the fast idle rpm's. When warm, the fast idle screw is not in contact with the fast idle cam which has rotated out of position. The curb idle screw then governs the idle speed.
On my Weber, I have to rotate the throttle in order to gain access to the fast idle adjustment screw. Some carbs also have choke pull down adjusting nuts that help adjust the choke linkage. Others require the linkage to be bent.

It sounds like you need to adjust the fast idle down a bit, 1500 rpm is probably not out of line for a fast idle. With regard to timing, the fast idle is going to increase timing because of the high vacuum reading and or the centrifugal advance is kicking in at higher rpms.

Adjusting fuel mixture screws is the wrong thing to do when engine is running on fast idle. The fuel mixture screws should be set when the engine is at the proper curb idle. At fast idle, the carb is in transition between the idle fuel circuit and another intermediate speed fuel circuit. You can adjust idle fuel mixture and have little to no effect on idle speed if the fast idle is engaged.
Doug

 

[2Blew2B]

Great information. Please help me get this straight. The first thing I need to do is:
1.) Crank the car with the choke pulled down then as it warms up open all the way.

My RPMs at this time is around 1500 as of today.

QUESTION: How long should it take for the engine to reach normal ideal temperature??

2.) Then the car should automatically idle down. Then adjust the curb idle screw to bring down the idle to 600 if it doesn’t go there already??

3.) Then check and set timing.

Does that sound like the proper sequence of events?

 

[Lazy JW]

QUESTION: How long should it take for the engine to reach normal ideal temperature??

It could take 10-20 minutes to warm up enough at idle, there isn't enough load to warm things up very quickly. You can feel the upper radiator hose, when the thermostat opens the hose will get quite warm. At that point the engine is warm enough to set the carb.

Since you have a manual choke the fast idle will be controlled partly by you when you operate the choke control. It will not "automatically idle down" because the choke isn't automatic. This is ok though, because you can decide when it can be opened. When it is fully warmed up it shouldn't need any choke applied. Be sure that the fast idle screw is NOT affecting the idle when fully warm.

Open headers will not affect the timing, it just makes it LOUD It may affect the idle settings but not very much. Go ahead and make the adjustments, they may need tweaked slightly after installing mufflers but not enough to keep you from playing with it now.

I recommend unhooking the vacuum advance from the distributor until the engine can idle down with proper mixture adjustments andinitial timing set. It just adds to the confusion, you will want it hooked up later for economy though.
Joe

 

[CobraSix]

The only other thing I can think of is make sure you adjust the choke butterfly as well. It isn't fast idle screw, but adjust the actual throttle butterflies. They may be too closed off.

Now something else that comes to mind...how old is this holley? It could be that the idle circuit is clogged up. I had that happen to my old Autolite 1100 and it wouldn't allow my car to run below 2000 RPM because I basically had to bypass the idle circuit with the cruise circuit.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

I overlooked the fact that you had a manual choke. I think my electric choke is heating up too rapidly. It seems to open after about 5 minutes. I may readjust the choke cover, or install an in-line resistor to slow down the openning of the choke. I'll have to check it out the next cold snap.

Something many people overlook with chokes nowadays is the fact that even if it is an automatic choke, you need set the choke by fully depressing the gas pedal to the floor and releasing. This allows the choke spring to close the choke plate.
Doug

 

[2Blew2B]

To answer COBRASIX question the HOLLEY is brand new. I decided to just go ahead and get the exhaust system installed. A friend has a car trailer. I live in Tucson and the houses are an inch apart so running it for 20 min with just headers might get me kicked out the nieborhood. The last time I did try and time it I forgot to disconnect the vac advance. I DO have a few other questions though.

1) Do you have to hook up the Transmission Kick down setup (looks like a small bracket and spring) or is this just for automatics. I have a 67 3 speed in it.??

On the choke cable set up. I can push the choke plate almost vertical then there is just a little more until it won't physically go any further. I currently have it set up to close all the way but not open to the physical stop point. Is that set up correct??

Again thank you all for your help

 

[Anonymous]

you dont need a/c in tucson. ive driven in tucson with no a/c for 3 years. No complaints here. i wanna see your car tho.

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI
The Choke palte should go almost vertical when open all the way.. when you unhook the vacuum lines to the dizzy be sure to plug them or you might get a vacuum leak. also the 2turns on the mixture screws might not be enough each motor is different. That might also be stopping you from being able to idle down.. I would Idle it down as far as it well let you the turn those mixture screws again and see if it clears up. Timming could be off as well sence its new.
Tim

 

[Ronn]

I'll try to help. You said your timing mark was about an inch past the plate toward the pass side? That means your timing is way to advanced. If your an inch past and it's 15 degrees at the edge of the plate, you'd be in the 20's maybe close to 30 degress adavanced, this will cause a higher idle as well. also pinging, hot temps etc. I run 14 degrees with nothing but 93 octane. And yes, like they said, be sure the fast idle screw is'nt all the way in holding the idle that high even after choke is open. If those 2 things don't help, then I don't know. Try turning your air fuel adjustments out almost all the way out then screw back in 2 turns, start car, warm up, open choke, set timing to 14, then turn air fuel screw in until engine just starts to bog then open back up 1.5 turns.

 

[pedal2themetal45]

Just a side note with the RPMs so high the timming is going to be way advance because of the high rpms..
To make sure your OK on timming, mark the dizzy (on the housing) where the #1 wire is, pull the cap and move the motor untill you are at TDC ( 0 ) and look at where the Rotor is pointing it well eather be pointing at the mark on the Dizzy housing or 180deg off . If its 180 off your not at TDC turn the crank around one more time to bring it to TDC then see if it is pointing to the mark on the housing if not move the dizzy so it does this well get you where the timming should not be a prob. Once its running right then we can adjust the timming to the right specs.
It that is good then were looking at a carb prob or miss adjustment.
Tim

 

[2Blew2B]

Hello All,
I got her running today. I got her back from the exhaust shop and man she is sweet. The idle fell once I ran it for a while and then the timing fell into limits. about 10 degree. I'm trying to up date my web site but its full. I want to thank all those that help me on this project.

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HAY GLAD YOU GOT IT GOING... any more probs just give us a post..
I went to your home page car looks good which one is you with the motor.. the guy making the muscle??
Take care
Tim

 

[2Blew2B]

No that is my sons friend. Thet were alot of help through out the project. I have tons more pictures but i ran out of space on my homepage.