All Small Six hot pink wire
- Thread starter timson
- Start date
This relates to all small sixes
Hi Tim, Yes it will get warm that's the Resistor Wire for the stock Points Ignition System to lower the voltage, if your still running that Point Distributor System.
timson
Well-known member
Thanks, Bubba!
In wiring up the DSII a while ago, with no small amount of help from you, I ran a new wire directly to the DSII ECU´s red-white wire by tapping into the (very short) Red-green wire coming off the ignition switch, before the pink. I left the pink wire in place, so it still takes power to the solenoid and coil, I think.
I´ll be checking to see if the pink heats up while car is running, and also check the voltage at the coil, comparing running voltage to that with ignition on, motor off. Should be different, right, with lower voltage in the on position?
But with an "Inferno" coil and the DSII ECU, is this reduced voltage/pink wire necessary?
If not, should I eliminate the pink by tapping into the new wire to the DSII and running wires from the ignition swith to the solenoid and coil? What´s the simple, best way?
Thanks much!
In wiring up the DSII a while ago, with no small amount of help from you, I ran a new wire directly to the DSII ECU´s red-white wire by tapping into the (very short) Red-green wire coming off the ignition switch, before the pink. I left the pink wire in place, so it still takes power to the solenoid and coil, I think.
I´ll be checking to see if the pink heats up while car is running, and also check the voltage at the coil, comparing running voltage to that with ignition on, motor off. Should be different, right, with lower voltage in the on position?
But with an "Inferno" coil and the DSII ECU, is this reduced voltage/pink wire necessary?
If not, should I eliminate the pink by tapping into the new wire to the DSII and running wires from the ignition swith to the solenoid and coil? What´s the simple, best way?
Thanks much!
timson
Well-known member
Thanks again, Bubba!
I´ve been reviewing my notes, including the post you reposted here and a few others.
First, the FAQ page for the Inferno coil indicates that "we do not recommend using the existing ignition hot wire. It may be too small or a resisted wire thus reducing the voltage." Therefore, it looks like the Inferno wants full strength. I´ll call them next week to confirm.
If so, the pink resistor wire is unnecessary. Great!
I´ve been looking at the diagram you sent, along with several others I´ve collected, noting their differences. In yours, the "start bypass" circuit is a little confusing and it doesn´t show the starter solenoid. I have been looking also at Mustang Steve´s diagram here, and it seems to make more sense to me:
The Comet is alive, but I haven´t been able to do much with it because of other projects. I just yesterday hooked up the AFR gauge (which got me looking again at the pink wire...), so I hope to start tuning the carb. More adventures await, for sure!
Thanks again,
Tim
I´ve been reviewing my notes, including the post you reposted here and a few others.
First, the FAQ page for the Inferno coil indicates that "we do not recommend using the existing ignition hot wire. It may be too small or a resisted wire thus reducing the voltage." Therefore, it looks like the Inferno wants full strength. I´ll call them next week to confirm.
If so, the pink resistor wire is unnecessary. Great!
I´ve been looking at the diagram you sent, along with several others I´ve collected, noting their differences. In yours, the "start bypass" circuit is a little confusing and it doesn´t show the starter solenoid. I have been looking also at Mustang Steve´s diagram here, and it seems to make more sense to me:
- disconnect the brown wire from the I terminal on the solenoid
- disconnect the pink wire
- tap into the wire I already ran from the ignition switch to the DSII module red wire, and run a wire to the coil positive for full 12v power when ignition is on.
The Comet is alive, but I haven´t been able to do much with it because of other projects. I just yesterday hooked up the AFR gauge (which got me looking again at the pink wire...), so I hope to start tuning the carb. More adventures await, for sure!
Thanks again,
Tim
Hi Tim, yes for sure that Mustang Steve wire diagram is a much better one to follow and use it dose make the wiring process much simpler. Do you you have the White wire going to the ICM hooked up to the starter Terminal on the Starter Solenoid?
timson
Well-known member
Howdy, Bubba,
Glad that Steve´s diagram works; I´m following it.
I had the white wire from the ICU connected to the solenoid at start up, but since my initial timing had to be advanced so much for the engine to run (at least 18*), I disconnected it. Not sure if that was an issue, but I wanted to eliminate that variable. Now, with changes to the ignition wiring and carb coming up, I hope to connect it again.
The carb settings are certainly an issue, since I need to open the butterfly a bit (idle screw in more than spec) to get the engine to idle (i.e. idle circuit is too lean on Weber DGV). I went ahead and installed a fuel pressure regulator to eliminate that variable as well.
You may recall a series of posts I made several months back in which my valve timing was in question. I´m moving forward with everything else for now, hoping that I can tune it up without re-degreeing the cam.
That said, the Comet runs nicely. Get up and goes, uses too much gas, idles rough, and is hard starting with an awful squeal from the TuffStuff 100amp alternator, but she goes. I recently replaced the radiator with a new one and she´s nice and cool now for the first time in 20 years!
Thanks for your comments and help and Happy Fourth of July!
Tim
Glad that Steve´s diagram works; I´m following it.
I had the white wire from the ICU connected to the solenoid at start up, but since my initial timing had to be advanced so much for the engine to run (at least 18*), I disconnected it. Not sure if that was an issue, but I wanted to eliminate that variable. Now, with changes to the ignition wiring and carb coming up, I hope to connect it again.
The carb settings are certainly an issue, since I need to open the butterfly a bit (idle screw in more than spec) to get the engine to idle (i.e. idle circuit is too lean on Weber DGV). I went ahead and installed a fuel pressure regulator to eliminate that variable as well.
You may recall a series of posts I made several months back in which my valve timing was in question. I´m moving forward with everything else for now, hoping that I can tune it up without re-degreeing the cam.
That said, the Comet runs nicely. Get up and goes, uses too much gas, idles rough, and is hard starting with an awful squeal from the TuffStuff 100amp alternator, but she goes. I recently replaced the radiator with a new one and she´s nice and cool now for the first time in 20 years!
Thanks for your comments and help and Happy Fourth of July!
Tim
Yes hooking back up the ICM's White Wire to the starting circuit will be helpful since your using 18 Degrees of Base Timing. The ICM's "Retarding Feature" of the base Ignition Timing only works during the Starting of the Engine it retards the timing about 4 degrees this would be much easier on the starter. Yes the next big job is going to be putting some time into the Weber Carb tuning. On the alternator how is the Belt Alignment? Sometimes these on aftermarket Alternators the pulley doesn't end up being straight with the other engine pulleys and need some trimming or shimming. Thank you Tim, and also wishing you a Happy 4Th, best of luck on the tuning.
timson
Well-known member
Since I was having trouble starting the car without the timing being advanced so far, I didn´t think retarding it would help so opted out of the white wire. I´ll hook it up now and see!
I just confirmed with the company that the Inferno coil does want a full 12v. I hope that completing the wiring as per Mustang Steve and giving it that extra juice, maybe my starting and rough idling problems and other things will improve.
With the AFR gauge hooked up, I´m excited to see what´s going on. One thing I did was to gather all of the Weber DGV settings mentioned on this forum, some 20 or so, and get the average jet size for each jet. I´m kind of making that my starting point now, especially with the idle circuit. Not a fool-proof method, but I hope it gets me in the ballpark. I´m at 2000 feet above sea level and all of our engines breathe differently, of course.
I had to stack some washers to align my pulleys on install, and I think they are good. The squealing is only during warm up, it seems. I´ve cleaned both the pulleys and the belt, used belt dressing, but it still squeals some. I might try roughing up the grooves next with some sandpaper, but don´t think it´s a major issue as long as I don´t overtighten the belt. I´ve seen on other forums where using a 100 amp alternator can do this on a single-pulley setup. Oh well, will get to that in time...
Cheers again, Bubba!
Tim
I just confirmed with the company that the Inferno coil does want a full 12v. I hope that completing the wiring as per Mustang Steve and giving it that extra juice, maybe my starting and rough idling problems and other things will improve.
With the AFR gauge hooked up, I´m excited to see what´s going on. One thing I did was to gather all of the Weber DGV settings mentioned on this forum, some 20 or so, and get the average jet size for each jet. I´m kind of making that my starting point now, especially with the idle circuit. Not a fool-proof method, but I hope it gets me in the ballpark. I´m at 2000 feet above sea level and all of our engines breathe differently, of course.
I had to stack some washers to align my pulleys on install, and I think they are good. The squealing is only during warm up, it seems. I´ve cleaned both the pulleys and the belt, used belt dressing, but it still squeals some. I might try roughing up the grooves next with some sandpaper, but don´t think it´s a major issue as long as I don´t overtighten the belt. I´ve seen on other forums where using a 100 amp alternator can do this on a single-pulley setup. Oh well, will get to that in time...
Cheers again, Bubba!
Tim
Would you please take the time to measure the DC resistance of the primary of the Inferno coil.
Thanks
Sure there are many many people that don't hook up the White Wire and have no issues in starting if that works for you to no need to change it. Getting the Coil the right amount of Voltage is bound to help with the engine Idle some, especially if the Weber Carb is a bit on the rich side right now. However I have not tried to use that Inferno Coil, have only used all the stock MotorCraft spec parts or upgraded to the NAPA Echelon Parts for my DS II swaps including the Coil for my conversations and its more than adequate for a stock to mild Performance Engine for street use.
Yes with a high Amp Alternator and only using a single pulley it presents a little bit of a challenge. some are using a soft start Regulator to solve this problem in the later 3rd Gen Ford Alternator upgrades when using a single V belt. You might see if TuffStuff has that type of a Regulator option available too. Good luck I think your heading in the right direction and wont be long until your Comet is in Top Tune.
If you add another .2 ohms for wiring without the pink wire, the total resistance through the primary side of the coil is about 1 ohm.
At 14 volts running voltage, the coil's primary current will peak at 14 amps.
An "I" core ignition coil (including the Inferno) will saturate before 14 amps.
The wasted energy will transform into heat and the coil as well as the coil driver in the Duraspark ignition box will run very hot at low rpm where the coil stays saturated for long lengths of time.
Even the high performance HEI "E" core coils aren't driven beyond 8 amps.
I would highly recommend a 1 ohm external ballast resistor in place of the pink wire to cut the peak coil primary current to 7 amps.
I think the misunderstanding is because during a DS2 conversion, the ignition box must get the full battery voltage, but the coil gets a ballast resistor.
You will need to run the ballast resistor bypass wire from the "+" terminal on the coil to the "I" terminal on the starter solenoid.
The HEI ignition systems which are current regulated and inductive systems that have true dwell control do not need a ballast resistor for the coil.
Capacitive discharge systems do not use a ballast resistor and supply at least 4 times the spark CURRENT as the standard inductive discharge system.
Last edited:
timson
Well-known member
Thanks much for the info, pmuller9! I could wire that in.
One wiring scheme I had been looking at was the one i´ve attached here, which illustrates one placement of the ballast resistor. Does the diagram coincide with your thoughts?
It shows the resistor between the ignition and the coil, then another wire from the coil to the I post on the solenoid.
Does this mean a serious omission in Mustang Steve´s diagram?
Let me know what you think and thanks again!
Tim
One wiring scheme I had been looking at was the one i´ve attached here, which illustrates one placement of the ballast resistor. Does the diagram coincide with your thoughts?
It shows the resistor between the ignition and the coil, then another wire from the coil to the I post on the solenoid.
Does this mean a serious omission in Mustang Steve´s diagram?
Let me know what you think and thanks again!
Tim
Yes, the attached diagram shows the correct placement of the ballast resistor and the correct wiring between the starter solenoid and coil.
timson
Well-known member
Thanks again, pmuller9.
I called the coil manufacturer again today to push them a little harder on the question. After saying the coil itself was built to take the heat, Scott thought the problem might be with the DSII ICU module heating up too much and agreed that a ballast resistor would be the way to go with that unit. Were I to use a different module, it might not be needed.
Anyway, off to get meself a resistor and do some wiring!
Cheers!
Tim
Hi Tim, you already have the resistor built in to the Pink Wire that will do the same thing so you could leave your wiring just as you have it hooked up originally. Also to remind you once again that with any type Resistor that's used to drop the voltage to an electrical part they will also have the by product of getting warm to hot from the Resistance Load they are providing. Good luck
timson
Well-known member
Thanks, Bubba,
That´s the conclusion I came to today after reading a lot of opinions on the matter. I think I´ll hook it up like I had it, using the pink wire to tone down the voltage input to coil while running, at least for now.
The ICU still gets full 12V from the wire I added before from ignition ON (red-green, prior to pink) to red wire (and I´ll hook up the white wire).
If I understand correctly, the starting circuit should be like this: If I leave the original brown wire connected to the I terminal of the solenoid, it should send full 12V to coil at startup only. The brown joins the red-green at the firewall (as they both come from the pink), so when activated at the solenoid (with full 12V, i am assuming), it would still be able to send juice to the coil. Right? or is a separate wire needed for that as pmuller9 suggests?
If so, that´s pretty much where I started, only now I know that pink wire heat is normal and "doing it´s job". Once hooked back up, I´ll measure the voltage at the coil on the on and start settings to see better what´s happening. I´ll also monitor the pink wire a bit to get a sense of how hot it gets. If I get nervous, I´ll switch it out to the ballast resistor. I might even bypass the resistor just to see what happens, i.e. how hot does that Inferno coil get without one?
Thanks all for your ideas!
Tim
That´s the conclusion I came to today after reading a lot of opinions on the matter. I think I´ll hook it up like I had it, using the pink wire to tone down the voltage input to coil while running, at least for now.
The ICU still gets full 12V from the wire I added before from ignition ON (red-green, prior to pink) to red wire (and I´ll hook up the white wire).
If I understand correctly, the starting circuit should be like this: If I leave the original brown wire connected to the I terminal of the solenoid, it should send full 12V to coil at startup only. The brown joins the red-green at the firewall (as they both come from the pink), so when activated at the solenoid (with full 12V, i am assuming), it would still be able to send juice to the coil. Right? or is a separate wire needed for that as pmuller9 suggests?
If so, that´s pretty much where I started, only now I know that pink wire heat is normal and "doing it´s job". Once hooked back up, I´ll measure the voltage at the coil on the on and start settings to see better what´s happening. I´ll also monitor the pink wire a bit to get a sense of how hot it gets. If I get nervous, I´ll switch it out to the ballast resistor. I might even bypass the resistor just to see what happens, i.e. how hot does that Inferno coil get without one?
Thanks all for your ideas!
Tim
Hi Tim, yes that is correct you will always need to have the full 12 volts going to the Red Wire of the stock ICM's just as you have had it. Also the Stock wiring from the Pink Wire is hooked up direct to the Red/Green Stripe Coil Wire for these older model Manual Transmission Cars (after awhile Ford also went to a Clutch Safety Switch). If an Auto Transmission is being used it then needs to go through the "Neutral Safety Switch" first before going on to the Coil. The Brown Wire coming over from the Starter Solenoid I Terminal also ties into the Red / Green stripe wire this is way the stock Points Ignition System was also wired up. Yes there will only be a full 12 Volts going over to the Coil during the Engines Start Up with a lower Voltage of about 6 to 8 Volts during the rest of the time when the engine is running. I have done it like that more times than I can remember on my DS II Swaps with excellent results. Many of these swaps were done with all used stock Ford parts straight from the junk yard, today its probably not so easy to find these 1976 to 1982 Fords in most junk yards.
So the Variable to the above is in using the Inferno Coil and how many Amps are going to it, I don't know the answer to how Hot an Inferno coil will get without the resistor I would need to study its specs, looks like pmuller9 did this in his above post. Which model of the Inferno coil did you get? The Coil Specs should also say if its designed for use with an External Resistor or not. That said all Coils will get Warm to Hot in operation of the Primary and Secondary Coil wiring converting it to its very High Voltage Secondary output. Good luck
So the Variable to the above is in using the Inferno Coil and how many Amps are going to it, I don't know the answer to how Hot an Inferno coil will get without the resistor I would need to study its specs, looks like pmuller9 did this in his above post. Which model of the Inferno coil did you get? The Coil Specs should also say if its designed for use with an External Resistor or not. That said all Coils will get Warm to Hot in operation of the Primary and Secondary Coil wiring converting it to its very High Voltage Secondary output. Good luck
The only reason I recommended an external ballast resistor is the ballast should have close to the same resistance as the coil's internal primary resistance.
The test would be if the voltage at the coil was half the battery voltage with the ignition on.
The test would be if the voltage at the coil was half the battery voltage with the ignition on.
timson
Well-known member
Thanks again, both of you. I appreciate the careful reading, the thoughtful, thorough replies, and the patience shown answering questions that have been asked many times on this forum.
Not running, my batt currently shows 12.6 Volts; with ignition on (car off), power to coil pos. is 4.5 volts.
Car running, batt shows 14.5 and coil shows 8.8 volts.
I can reach under the dash and touch the pink wire; it´s warm, but not alarmingly so, now that I know. Coil is definitely hot, but i don´t think I´ve ever touched one before while running, so i´ll assume that´s normal. Thanks for the lesson, guys!
Just took her for a spin with the AFR gauge: 10% (rich) everywhere but WOT, which registers 12.8 or so. Now time to get intimate with my Weber.
Incidentally, the squeal seems to be coming from the rear of the engine, near the transmission. Only does it when I hit the pedal suddenly; a gentle throttle up gets no squeal. Happens almost every time, even when engine is warm. it is very loud and goes away as revs increase. rarely hear it while driving, mostly from idle. will continue to refine my observations...
Ideas? Maybe should start a different thread for this one...
Cheers!
Tim
Not running, my batt currently shows 12.6 Volts; with ignition on (car off), power to coil pos. is 4.5 volts.
Car running, batt shows 14.5 and coil shows 8.8 volts.
I can reach under the dash and touch the pink wire; it´s warm, but not alarmingly so, now that I know. Coil is definitely hot, but i don´t think I´ve ever touched one before while running, so i´ll assume that´s normal. Thanks for the lesson, guys!
Just took her for a spin with the AFR gauge: 10% (rich) everywhere but WOT, which registers 12.8 or so. Now time to get intimate with my Weber.
Incidentally, the squeal seems to be coming from the rear of the engine, near the transmission. Only does it when I hit the pedal suddenly; a gentle throttle up gets no squeal. Happens almost every time, even when engine is warm. it is very loud and goes away as revs increase. rarely hear it while driving, mostly from idle. will continue to refine my observations...
Ideas? Maybe should start a different thread for this one...
Cheers!
Tim
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