How is my engine? Valve Cover off and Compression Results

[chad]

"...doesn’t damage the seal right..."
no, might leak; doubtful, 50/50 tho.

My comment wuz 4 the PAN gasket~
(these kids 2day R so fast I can't keep up wid dem. Yeah, even w/a wife'n kidsa ur own...I call em kids upto 67 y/o) My age

 

[bubba22349]

Ahhhh Chad thank you.

After reading your post I realized I made a mistake and did not let the sealer on the rear main to cure an hour before I torqued to spec.

I need to pull it off again and redo it. Taking it off and on doesn’t damage the seal right? Don’t feel like buying another one haha. It’s not like a gasket right?

Ahh no Drake, you didn't make a mistake! You wouldn't ever want the sealer to cure before the assembly, you apply it and quickly assemble it, then let cure. The whole point of even using that small amount of silicone is to try and make a little better seal at those parting lines and after its cured its to late to do that. On your stripped block treads for the oil pan bolt you can use a helicoil kit to fix that. Oh and to your other question on seal generally you wont usually damage it taking it apart a few times before its put into use, however do examine its sealing surface (the lip) to be sure. Good luck Edited

1. After you have disassembled and discovered what is wrong.
2. Start to form your plan for the repair job.
3. Ask your questions on items or procedures that your unsure of.
4. Compare the answers you receive to your questions.
5. Decide from the answers you receive on how you want to proceed.
6. Start the repair and take your time on your reassembly.
7. If you run into any problems or are unsure how to proceed stop until you know why.
8. Now that you know the why you can complete the job.

After you gain more experience your jobs will also go much quicker.

 

[chad]

"...will...go much quicker..."
aahahahaaa, I wuz thinkin much slower.
I like this 8 step approach tho bubs !
BTW 3 & 4 I'd add "ck in w/ ford6" LOL

 

[bubba22349]

Chad I guess I only implied it in the 3. Point on asking questions, but were else can you find these great answers supply'ed by all our knowledgeable site members.

 

[MustangDadDrake]

1. After you have disassembled and discovered what is wrong.
2. Start to form your plan for the repair job.
3. Ask your questions on items or procedures that your unsure of.
4. Compare the answers you receive to your questions.
5. Decide from the answers you receive on how you want to proceed.
6. Start the repair and take your time on your reassembly.
7. If you run into any problems or are unsure how to proceed stop until you know why.
8. Now that you know the why you can complete the job.

After you gain more experience your jobs will also go much quicker.

This is beautiful, thank you. On this project especially I was kind of all over the place and I get nervous when messing with the engine because I don't fully understand things sometimes.

This is a simple and power plan of attack that I will apply to my current project and all future ones.

Lastly, I really appreciate all of you looking out for me and helping me. I would be so lost without you all. So a huge thank you! I am a youngster who is thankful for all the guidance.

 

[chad]

"...for me and helping me..."
It would not happen w/o ur willingness. That intention (just something frm the mind) is what took U thru to the end. Not a coupla duffers ona web site. Some will not pick up the tools, some sit'n whine, etc. I taught at the YW, just simple - tune ups, how to change oil, flat tire, etc. Most of them (now this wuz the early '70s) had been inculturated 'that wuz man's wrk', "we can not do it". But just a lill finger point and some supervision for safety and these folks 'went at it". No experience, no understanding, but the willingness. This will take U far my brother !
Now U have built some understanding, experience, confidence. If there is no Chilton's, Haynes, 'the Handbook', use of above 'tech archive' that might B nxt. I usually get myself into almost more trouble than I can get myself out of. These sources help me stay on that edge. I grow when I get w/those who are a lill (or alot) beyond me.
Keep goin, don't stop now~

 

[bubba22349]

Thank you Drake for your kind words, i don't know where you are in your project right now was away dealing with some health issues. So will offer a couple more suggestions that you may want to try now or at a later date, hope this comes at the right time for you.

1. Check the condition of the timing chain set, a very loose timing chain gives away power since the camshaft isn't in sync with the crankshaft. This is very common condition on a high Milage engine. See below for simple testing to determine if timing set needs replacing. Some common signs of a loose or worn out timing chain / gear set, Backfiring, Loss of Power, Rough Running, and Noise in the timing cover. If your oil pan is still off its easy to see if the timing chain is loose from under the car by turning the crankshaft one way and then in the reverse direction watching the chain from under neath for signs of any sloppiness.

If you haven't started the engine yet its not a bad idea to manually turn the crankshaft through 40 to 50 revolutions by hand to help seat the new rear main seal. Also be sure to put some sealer on the flex plate bolts before retorquing such as the non hardening Permatex, somtimes these bolts will seap some oil around the threads. Before you retorque your torque converter bolts clean them and put some Red locktite on them then torque to spec.

2. Head work if you want to maximize your compression ratio stock your 200 has a 8.7 to 1 C.R. You could raise this to 8.9 to 9.0 with reg 87 fuel and more if you use higher grades. A .020 cut would take you to 8.9 and at .025 cut you would be at 9.0 to 1. To this you need to add another .025 mill cut of your heads deck surface to compensate for the extra thickenest of the newer FelPro Head gaskets of .050 compared to the (stock steel shim head gasket of about .022). Along with milling of the head deck get a three angle valve job with back cutting of the intake valves. Other items to consider is pocket porting / valve bowl blending, or the best upgrade is to be on the look out to find a late 1970's to 1983 200 or 250 large log head that will increase flow even more.

So if in the future you wanted to do some more work on the 200 to improve its power an driveableity when you have some more funds consider those above items. Number 1. would still be a fairly easy job more so if you still have the pan off, but could also be done at later on too. And also on number 2 if you want to add some extra power. Any of these two could be done in part of or over a weekend.

A Simple Test to check for a worn timing chain / gear set 1. Above
The timing chain could be worn / stretched and or the cam and crank gears also worn from lots of miles of use. You can test for a worn out timing chain and the gears by hand turning the crankshaft to the TDC timing cover mark then take off the distribtor cap and mark the position of the rotor on the Distribitor body with a piece of chock, now start slowly turning the crank the opposite direction until the rotor starts to move. The lag or difference of how much the crankshaft moves compared to before the Distribitor rotor starts to move shows how much slop there is in the timing chain & gear set. A good timing chain / gear set would not show any lag or difference of the rotor at the TDC mark when you start turning the crankshaft in reverse. The backfire your experiencing on deceleration is an indication of a loose timing chain / worn timing gear set. If it's already back togeather then don't worry about it I am sure everything will be fine. Best of luck Edited

 

[MustangDadDrake]

Sorry to hear about your health issues, glad you are back!

Thanks for the very detailed post. Everything is not back together yet. I have two bolt holes that are stripped out and I fixed one with a helicoil. The helicoil didn't work on the other one as the hole was too big. I am ordering a thickened insert that will be here tomorrow hopefully to take care of that one.

I still need to flatten the oil pan out, paint the oil pan, and install the pump and screen before I am ready to get the oil pan back on. With how my month is looking I expect to be back on the road by Father's day, which would be super cool.

I did look at the timing chain and I poked it with my finger to see how loose it was. But I think your way of testing is a much better way

Thanks for the tip about turning the crankshaft to seat the seal, really hoping that the seal doesn't leak so any tips like that help. I was afraid to turn the crankshaft too much because there is no oil in the car, but it should be fine right because I am not turning it very fast.

Again you guys are all awesome and not just on my posts but I look at posts from years back and this information is so helpful

 

[bubba22349]

Thank you yes they said I did good on the surgery, just need to heal now. Glad to hear your making progress Drake, do take the opportunity to check out the timing chain and gears while it's easy for you. To bad about the blocks pan bolt holes being stripped out but at least it's not that critical of an item you could also use an offset stud to fix that. I. E. Their bigger on one end and stock size on the other. When you go to install the new oil pump put some oil in it and turn it so that it's pre lubed some and can get oil to all the bearings quicker. Good luck

 

[MustangDadDrake]

Knowing that my chain most likely needs replacing and with the oil pan off I dove into disassembly head first... and I hit my head on the bottom of the pool.

How bad is it guys... I used a puller to remove the damper and it broke and now it is still stuck on the crankshaft.

Questions:

how do I remove the remaining pieces?

Did I possibly bend the crankshaft?

Where should I get a new one?

How bad is it? Do I need stitches????

http://u.cubeupload.com/Drakesbigday/35 ... 28CE1.jpeg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Drakesbigday/74 ... 589AC.jpeg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Drakesbigday/59 ... C8F14.jpeg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Drakesbigday/CF ... 78639.jpeg
http://u.cubeupload.com/Drakesbigday/48 ... 2B655.jpeg

 

[bubba22349]

Did you use the crankshaft Dampner bolt (without washer) for the puller to push against? No chance that you bent the crankshaft. Dampners usally come off fairly easy, to find another check if Dorman has a listing for new one or the Dampner Doctor for a rebuilt one they might have an extra center that could be used with your outer pulleys. For a used one check the local Pick A Part's and machine shop for a core that matches your old one. wow going to be tough to get the rest off but you won't need stitches, maybe a sharp chisel to split it open or mini hack saw to cut through at the narrowest place being careful not to touch the crankshaft. Best of luck

 

[MustangDadDrake]

I left the washer on. That was my problem.

I tried a puller but because the left over piece isn’t 180 degrees it didn’t work. I’ll try a bearing puller tomorrow and then maybe drill a hole in the left over piece and use a hammer puller.

It will come off! :rolflmao:

 

[chad]

I think yer son has the right idea ! Many of us use it. Take a nap, come back to it later.

At this point I might say (wisely or in ignorance) that many think of the endeavor as a knuckle dragin, Cro-Magnon, muscle, grease monkey type pursuit. It is actually quite technical.
Ownership of "the Handbook", perusal of the 'tech archive', use of a shop manual (Haynes or Chiltons) are all good. Ck out a chapter B4 tackling a job can assist. Many of us did this as kids, at a neighbor's knee, a giving repair garage owner, etc. That's me. Books have come later, but indispensable now as I wuz not around this 1980 - 2000. I missed the development of car computers, fuel injection and more (air bags, cat. converters, abs etc, etc). Research, informed diagnosis, planned approach (tool selection, disassembly AND re-assembly) execution w/dish off to other procedures (sequence of operations is a money maker in and by itself!). "How things work" just comes w/experience. Ur getting that now w/ur willingness. BUT different engineers come up w/different ways to do the same thing (try countries & manufacturers). SO - don't B embarrassed. Just (again) slo dwn.

I think #2 pic shows it coming off crooked. Possibly 1 edge fought against another jamming it further (tool not set to pull off square)? not sure. If so - I would not cont to do that, but try to pul back sq & then do a straight pull off. Here we R lucky, a die grinder (WITH JUDICIOUS use) and. a cut off wheel at the hi side (I still think it's crooked) so as to not cut the crank snout. Bigger toys get U in bigger trouble. Wanna try that? I all way look for an excuse to but a new tool - would U wanna buy/rent a 'welder's grinder" a 4.5 inch -$10 at harbor freight (drill master model) 90$ at Dewalt? then a pac of 'cut off wheels'? U must wear a face shield or eye protection and may B gloves...

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, no you didn't damage the crankshaft. But you did put a mark on the timing cover. As Chad mentioned, it does look crooked. I might try to gently wiggle something behind it and see if it is loose. Do not put pressure on the timing cover.
I know people who always used a chisel to split the timing gear off the crankshaft. But I always use a 3 arm puller. And we have a big pipe to tap the crank gear back on.
I would personally split that damper at the broken bolt hole with a big chisel and a nice size hammer.
Have fun with the crankshaft seal, and watch closely how the cam gear comes off. There is a ring behind the cam gear and the wedding ring has a front and a back.
Good luck

 

[chad]

Bee Ron, he's just pullin off what's left of the HB....
is that what U C?
= = = = =
"...how the cam gear comes off. There is a ring behind the cam gear and the wedding ring..."

_______________________________________________________________________________

"No B(ring) Y(our) O(wn) B(ronco)" ; "BoNES(tates)", or "May It Forward" this year. But...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/98225088885/

(See arounf 5/15/20)
Tasker (Randy) did make a yrly donation though (w/the 2, 3 bronco celebrations I think were in the 20 yr range for 9 or 10 states of the northeast plus Canahder). Its moved around a lill but we still look for you Mr. CO... 8)

 

[MustangDadDrake]

Hey guys quick update:

Great news that I didn’t damage the crankshaft. That’s a relief and I was able to remove the remaining piece!

The cover probably looks crooked or loose because I had already taken all the bolts out.

The chain is very loose and I’m going to get a new set.

I tried to take the camshaft sprocket off but it turned the engine so I stopped and I’m going to have to rent a timing gear clamp.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, I never thought there was enough room for a bearing splitter behind the balancer. Most guys put a socket under the forceing screw so they don't damage the snout.
If your car is a stick shift you can put it in gear to keep the engine from turning. Otherwise you have to hold either the flexplate something else. I would put the bolt back in the crankshaft and see what happens. You don't have this problem if you use an impact wrench.
And it looks nice and clean in there.
Good luck

 

[chad]

hummfff...
pic don't come thru 4 me...

 

[bubba22349]

Great job Drake, I am glad it came apart without to much more trouble. Since you have the oil pan off you can also use a bar or a piece of a 2x4 to hold the crankshaft on a counter weight or Rod throw and against the side of the engine block to stop it from moving while you loosen the cam bolt. Good call replacing the timing set while you have it torn down this far that should give you back some lost power too. Best of luck

 

[MustangDadDrake]

Another update for you guys as I wait for my timing cover gasket to be delivered.

I painted the oil pan and my new timing cover.

I picked up a damper, chain and sprockets, oil pump, extra gaskets, and timing cover on offerup for $80 so I am pretty happy with that score. The damper is a single groove and I took off a double groove. I'd rather have a single groove because that is all I need.

I need a confirmation from you guys so I can lower my anxiety, I think I had too much coffee today... :shockin:

I lined up the dots on the sprockets when I took them off and when I put them on, I feel good about that. However when I was torquing the cam gear to 45 ft/lbs the chain assembly started moving a little. Common sense tells me it is fine because the gears are where they needed to be because they were seated and in their keys when I started to spin the cam by tightening the bolt. I know how critical this is so I am not afraid to ask this dumb question. Can you confirm that if the engine turned as I tightened the cam gear the timing is still good? (i was able to torque it properly by holding the flex plate after)

Here are some photos of my progress:
Old Chain:

New Chain:

Paint Job:

New Damper