how to diagnose smoking prob

[Timnmelinda]

Ok Rings, Valves, or valve seals?
In our 200 (67 Mustang)
The car smokes more than just at startup, it is more or less constant, you can see it and smell it, however I have been behind many vehicles that you could see and smell it worse.

I am far from a master mechanic, If I understand a std compression test will tell if compression is low (which I have not done yet) but is there a way to determine without tearing the engine down, is it rings, is it valves, or what. I will be honest at this time I do not really wish to pull the block to do the bottom end, but would not mind yanking head for the top end.

Teach me, Help me!

Tim

 

[addo]

Tim - have you tried a Nicabate patch on the valve cover? They're good for stopping smoking.

When doing the compression test, note some details. The motor needs to be fully hot and all plugs out. This means you need to prepare a little beforehand; laying out the tools like a surgeon. You'll need someting like a vet syringe for squirting oil into the cylinders, plus a pen and notepad. I also reckon it helps to photograph the plugs in order. Ground your coil lead to stop any sparks close to where you're working!

Work from one end to the other with your compression test, noting whether the needle evenly "steps up" with each revolution, or if it suddenly jumps and stays put. Then go back and squrt a tablespoon of oil in each cylinder, leat soak a minute or two and repeat the process.

I suspect you'll find it's the rings, but hoping it's not.

Regards, Adam.

 

[Stubby]

Good advice!

I have seen a couple of other areas to look.

PCV valve location. I have seen some valve covers with no baffle, allowing oil to splash into the pcv valve. I have also seen a 390 Ford with lock washers on the rocker shaft that allowed oil to squirt into the pcv valve.

I have seen bad modulator valves cause smoke. Usualy isolated to certain cylinders.

 

[wsa111]

Tim, do what the others stated, but pull the spark plugs first, is one plug loaded with oil or are all plugs wet with oil??
Either way, unless you have a pcv valve sucking oil, you probably will have to install new rings & or bore out the engine & end up doing a complete overhaul, including new valve guides & valve seals.

Might as well get ready to bite the bullet, when you pull the plugs a real oil burner will load the plug threads with oil, that is your first clue, good luck, william

By the way how much oil does the engine consume???

 

[woodbutcher]

Ok all you smart folks on here.Please correct me if I`m wrong.If the smoke is WHITE IIRC it is ATF.Meaning that the modulator has a ruptured
diaphram.If the smoke is blue,bad rings or VERY bad valve guides or SEALS.
Leo

 

[Timnmelinda]

It really doesnt seem to go through oil that badly, considering it gets driven 900/1000 miles per month, about a quart every 3-4 weeks
I have had many that ate a quart or more per week

Have not pulled the plugs and checked them yet

I did replace valve cover with chrome valve cover and went with a breather setup but this was not part of the problem as smoking started before this.

Man I am rebuilding the cars front end and painting it again cause my daughter had an accident in it, I really really hope not to have to pull the engine too.

Tim

 

[wsa111]

Leo, i'm one of the smart guys, atf & coolant produce a white smoke, tim what kind of fluid are you consuming, oil, atf, & or engine coolant???
Need input from you, William

 

[woodbutcher]

Hi wsa111,thanks for letting me know that my memory is STILL somewhat reliable.
Leo

 

[Timnmelinda]

allready checked tranny, negative it was all good

this is what puzzles me it is more of a charcoal dark smoke and really it is not dense (lots of it) but it is constant, and it is not il burning stench but the smell is there

It is definatley not typical bluish normal oil burning smoke

Tim

 

[wsa111]

Leo, atf & coolant produce white smoke, but coolant has a very pungent odor & is very heavy goes to lower levels where atf has a different smell & will affect the cylinder where the vacuum fitting is. Good point though.

Tim if you used a quart of oil in one week & you mention the smoke is dark, sounds like a rich fuel mixture washing the cylinder down & has caused improper ring seal in the cylinders, you may have 2 problems & if you fix the engine mechanically you also may have a rich A/f mixture which has & is the root of the condition.

What do the plugs look like, sooty desposits & oil on the insulator, if the oil is worse than the rich condition wet oil will prevail, might as well pull it down or fix the rich condition & run 20W-50 oil.

 

[Timnmelinda]

No you misread, quart of oil per 3/4 weeks 900/1000 miles
not using other fluids
will pull plugs hopefully tomorrow after work and report back in to my findings

but I will agree I have often pondered if it is fuel oil combo to be the darker smoke?

Tim

 

[JackFish]

it is more of a charcoal dark smoke and really it is not dense (lots of it) but it is constant, and it is not il burning stench but the smell is there

It is definatley not typical bluish normal oil burning smoke

Tim

Carboned up valves, I suspect, maybe coupled with worn valve guides and seals. Might be sludged up.

 

[Alvor315]

Tim, the latest problem I had with a car was a similar problem. If you are getting a consistant white smoke from the tailpipe, and it leaves carbon deposits on say cardboard if you put some behind the pipes, then I would say your mixture is REALLY RICH. What's your gas mileage like? My Jeep wagoneer had the jets swinging loose in the carb. If you're loosing oil then I see two posibilities. One you have a leak, my engine was leaking out of the oil sensor, took me weeks to track it down. Or two if your mix really is rich and the carbon deposits have gotten really bad they may have ruined your rings and they are leaking now(doubt it).

Do you hear any sounds, smell any smells? Might smell like a two-cycle if you are burning oil. If you are running rich it will smell like unburned gas. If it's coolant and you use anti-freeze the glycol will smell sweet. Have you checked for fouling on the plugs. Anything you can think of no matter how insignificant.

 

[woodbutcher]

Hi wsa111,know all about the NASTY smell of coolant burning.I help out at a friends radiator shop when able.
Leo

 

[wsa111]

Leo, yes antifreeze is a smell you will not forget, very nausiating.

Tim, why don't you run a compression check, if the numbers are ok then you are not losing power. If the engine runs smooth & the compression is ok & oil consumption is a quart in 1000 miles its your choice.

At least its not using a quart in 200 miles. Good luck on your diagnosis.